Control of the ball on force play

For the umps on here what or how do you determine control of the ball. Yes this is a have to see it type question, just looking for what you look for. On DP balls I've seen calls where ball hits ground and runner out on force at 2nd ball dropped on transfer. I've seen them called dropped never had control so safe. Last night GB to SS throw pulls FB glove into basline. Have to be there part here. Ball arrives split second before runner into glove then ball is on ground. Ump calls out. I know this ump well and is good ump. After game I ask how that call was determined? He says as soon as ball was in glove and foot on bag runner out on force. OK I'm good with that but I mentioned dbl plays at first of post for a reason as I've seen many called safe that the ball spent more time in the glove tHan I witnessed last night and in those instances ump always says no control. Is there a difference you use in dbl plays vs simple force out at first that you look for? How do you determine control, time, what you see? No complaints on the call just questions.

Judging by your description ump rules 1B had control of the ball for force out and that subsequent to the out being recorded the runner inadvertently knocked the ball out of the glove. I'm not saying whether or not that was the correct call but it appears to be how this ump ruled this particular play.

Unfortunately, this is a question that is almost impossible to answer. Each case is different and you have to see it to make the judgement.

For a force play, all that is required is control for an instant and to be touching the base prior to the runner arriving. A tag play is a bit different as control must be maintained "through the tag".

I have also seen instances where the ball enters the glove, but is not held securely and is moving around within the glove...that would not be control of the ball.

The difference in the double play attempt vs the out at first is that with the DP, you are aware that there will probably be a throw immediately following the first play, so you are looking for control of the catch vs taking the ball out of the glove to make the next throw. The play at first will not usually have a throw immediately following.

So, basically, it comes down to umpire judgement, which you may or may not always agree with.....

Ajaywill said:

Unfortunately, this is a question that is almost impossible to answer. Each case is different and you have to see it to make the judgement.

For a force play, all that is required is control for an instant and to be touching the base prior to the runner arriving. A tag play is a bit different as control must be maintained "through the tag".

I have also seen instances where the ball enters the glove, but is not held securely and is moving around within the glove...that would not be control of the ball.

The difference in the double play attempt vs the out at first is that with the DP, you are aware that there will probably be a throw immediately following the first play, so you are looking for control of the catch vs taking the ball out of the glove to make the next throw. The play at first will not usually have a throw immediately following.

So, basically, it comes down to umpire judgement, which you may or may not always agree with.....

Click to expand...

Exactly judgement call all the way...what can happen at the play at second is the player catches and controls the ball BEFORE touching the bag but then accomplishes the transfer WHILE stepping on the bag at this point she would need to make a clean transfer to record the out. But if she stepped on the bag with control then executed a transfer the transfer would not have to be clean to record the out. The key is WHEN is she stepping on 2B in relation to WHAT is happening with the ball at that exact moment.

Thanks guys. Your comments make sense.