Pitching faster

Hillhouse said:

That is because a college coach has to see into the future. They have to see how good this girl CAN be, not how good she is now. Yes, the now factor is part of it. But, it's about potential. Is she going to throw even harder than she is now or is she peaked? My guess is, someone throwing mid 50's has some room to grow in the speed department and if she's already got the movement pitches down, then I'd say she's ahead in the game (pardon the pun). Yes, of course, maybe the girl in the mid 50's has peaked too. There's where a college pitching coach needs to be wise and see the difference. And if the girl is being recruited, said coach has to funnel instruction on what to work on and how to do it to get out of that 50's MPH.

One question I have is, if your daughter is really serious about pitching, then worrying about high school should be the least of her troubles. So what if she doesn't play high school, I know of no college coaches who care about HS stats. HS stats, in my area, are kept by a dad on the team who has NO CLUE what is a hit or an error, a pitcher can have 21 strike outs against a school that can barely field a team, and there can be a lot of daddy ball favoritism. So, please don't stress about high school ball. I understand it's a part of growing up and girls like to play for the school, play with their friends, etc. But don't believe it will help her with college recruitment, IF THAT is her main goal.

What everyone has said is true, it's ideal to have sound mechanics when trying to get maximum speed. Sure, there are some that can use brute strength but that doesn't mean they are using good mechanics, their balls probably don't spin correctly, and they are more susceptible to injury. Plus, they will only throw as hard as their muscles will take them, get sore more often, and run out of energy faster. At the end of the day, the Good Lord created everyone differently. Someone (male or female) can throw extremely fast with seemingly very little effort. While others struggle to get anything. Why is that? I don't know. Sometimes it comes down to someone having a gift from heaven. If you have sound mechanics, good body structure, healthy, and can only break 55, then that's what you got. Personally, I had the ability to throw it (almost) as hard as most, but not consistently. I used movement, change of speeds, location, smarts, and a very good catcher for much of my own success.

Like Tommy Lasorda said in Orel Hersheiser's book, "You can stand on pitchers mound and fire a gun into a target, eventually the hitters will time the bullet." His point was well taken by me personally!

Bill

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My entire point was a lot of people tend to downplay speed. Yes, if everyone is throwing about the same speed you look at other areas to evaluate them. But if pitcher A is throwing 55 and pitcher B is throwing 65 and both have identical movement and accuracy there is not one person here that would take the pitcher throwing 55. Also, we all agree that mixing speeds is very effective so if pitcher B is throwing 65 she can effectively mix speeds from 45, 50, 55, 60 and 65mph as to where pitcher A can only mix from around 45-55. Another point stated often is a faster pitch just gets hit harder. I disagree with this also and believe it’s bad info to spread. The faster the pitch the less time a batter has to determine if it’s a strike or ball. If the pitch is thrown at 65mph you probably have to start deciding if that pitch is going to be a ball or strike 10 ft after it leaves the pitchers hand. The ball has a lot of distance still left to travel before it hits its intended spot (still plenty of time for that pitch that initially looked like a strike to veer off the plate and become a ball). To where a pitcher throwing 55 the batter can wait until the ball is damn near right in front of them before they have to decide if they need to swing. And yes comparing 55mph against a 65mph is a huge difference but for every mph gained by a pitcher it takes that much more time away from the batter to decide if they should swing or not. But I digress, i will keep my opinion to myself when this topic comes up. Best of luck to all!


Didn’t mean to hi-jack your thread OP. My apologies.


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Having been to several college camps over the past couple of years it does seem that speed is what they are looking at initially. I’d sit in the stands and watch as the coaches pulled out radars on the faster pitchers but not the slower ones. Didn’t matter what their movement was like. The one thing I have noticed them doing more of which I do like is splitting the girls up into teams and scrimmaging. It really shows you what a pitcher can do under pressure and if she can still hit the speeds on the gun she was hitting while on turf indoors just throwing to a catcher. It shows you more about if she has the command and control to go along with velocity and movement. It shows you more if she can pitch to soft contact as opposed to getting hit hard when she does get hit. Those types of camps to me show you more of a pitcher’s potential as opposed to just throwing to a catcher. The coaches can see what they can do against mostly high-level players (referring to a D1 camp and being familiar with the teams the girls play for).

My DD just faced 24 batters in a Sunbelt Conference weekend camp.
She struck out 11, gave up 2 singles, no runs and 1 walk.
In my opinion was almost dominate, riser was off the charts, change up was sick.. coaches told her your at 59-60. You need 3-4 miles per hour.
The big girls who threw 62-63 got hit around but got more love.
It's all speed and size..

riseball said:

Or even Kaitlin Lee.

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I was reading thru this thread just waiting to make the Kaitlin Lee comment and Riseball beat me to it. Kaitlin and Ole Miss won the SEC softball championship last year as most know and she pitched every inning of every game (28 innings/4 games).

My DD was fortunate enough to work with her a couple of weeks ago at a pitching camp and Kaitlin told DD as hard as she worked and tried she could never get above 59 mph. But she could spin the ball with the best of them and that is how she found success.

With that said, she went the JUCO route and not a standout D1 recruit out of High School. My guess as mentioned above is that she didn't have the size or speed and was overlooked (big mistake). I do think flame throwers get the attention of college coaches for the most part which can be frustrating as a parent and player.

Velocity is for show and spinning and movement is for dough, IMHO. BUT having all 3 is the Trifecta to aim for.

BT3100 said:

My DD just faced 24 batters in a Sunbelt Conference weekend camp.
She struck out 11, gave up 2 singles, no runs and 1 walk.
In my opinion was almost dominate, riser was off the charts, change up was sick.. coaches told her your at 59-60. You need 3-4 miles per hour.
The big girls who threw 62-63 got hit around but got more love.
It's all speed and size..

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Nice work!!!!

Yes, I agree with you completely - no matter how slow or fast a girl can throw the taller, thicker girls always get more looks initially.

riseball said:

If your regular practice regimen does not include a healthy dose of long toss, do not expect to see much in the way of increased velocity. Even on days when you really don't do much, you need to do long toss. Put your cleats on, warm your core, long toss, and then and only then work on the other stuff. Like [MENTION=332]sluggers[/MENTION] said you need to be organized. A quality workout can be done in a short amount of time if you are focused and have a plan. Be methodical and have a purpose for everything that you do. Quality reps at a game tempo unless you are working on endurance.

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To the OP, over the years this is probably the 1 thing (Long Toss) that I failed to have DD do. We would do it on occasion but that didn't and doesn't help. We did everything else you could possibly do but not long toss.

With that said, we started a long toss program about 3 weeks ago (per a post Riseball had made) and it will be about all we do (outside of HS/Travel ball) this fall. DD has already seen the results in a very short time and her velocity was up this weekend and we just started. To make the program potentially more fun (takes a bit more time) but gives DD something to aim for to beat everytime we do it (and she has beat it everytime so far)

Mark your distances when you do this drill. I have a 100 ft measuring tape and while DD is putting cleats on and warming up I measure and mark the following:

Distance (Feet) Speed (MPH)
100 50
125 55
150 60
175 65

The above is a distance/speed correlation for long toss that Rick Pauly had discussed years ago. Every 5 feet is roughly 1 mph in velocity. So a long toss landing at 130 feet would be 56 mph. I have found this is a pretty accurate correlation as her Pocket Ball Coach Radar, Bushnell, and long toss distance give the exact same speed. Weird huh?

Most importantly, it makes long toss fun for DD as she is always trying to beat her last distance. Hope to share some positive results at the end of the year if I can find this post again....

S3

It's always odd to read or hear people downplay velocity and then you go to tryouts and college camps and the first thing they ask is MPH on fastball and the only 14u girls that even get a look are throwing in the low 60s. I imagine coaches are still sticking to the old adage that "you can't teach speed" and figuring that they could teach deception, spin and location.

The 2 losses my DDs team had at PGF this year were to pitchers who didn't hit 53 mph on a single pitch in the game.

Makes me wonder what I do with my 8th grader, she only pops the glove at 58 MPH and the places she wants to play want someone throwing the ball 5 mph faster than her.

I'll join in the derail.

First, I've been posting here about 3 years and lurking quite a bit longer. I have NEVER heard or seen anyone downplay velocity or state it isn't important. Sure, plenty (myself included) say velocity isn't AS important as spot or spin, especially at younger ages, but that in no way means it isn't important.

That said, very few of these threads start out with the 14U or older player looking to gain velocity. Most originate for the 10U girls. And at that age I will say stressing velocity is a losing position.

It is really simple. Each practice should contain a component of velocity work. I prefer long toss. If we have a 60 minute session, we'll spend at least 15 minutes on long toss. Spot and spin get their equal share as well.

Yes, velocity is important. But you have to take it in stride. Just because your 10U DD doesn't throw 55mph or is the slowest on her team doesn't mean a thing. Girls mature and develop at different rates. Now if she hasn't turned the corner coming into 14 or 15, then you might want to take a hard look at things. But if you've been working technique, incorporating long toss into practices and practicing consistently I think you will find you don't have a problem with velocity.

I think someone said their DD didn't get pitching time because her velocity wasn't up to the coach's standard. If that is the case, then it is time to find a new team. The MOST important thing a young, developing pitcher needs is circle time. Not wasting time chasing down the rabbit hole of trying to catch up to the 11 year old 10U player who isn't going to grow another inch the rest of her life.

I firmly believe every girl can learn to throw 60mph. Beyond that it becomes something that is more God-given.

A lot of people seem to be saying speed is all coaches pay attention to. I call bullshit. Sure, maybe the top programs. And why not? They have the pick of the litter when it comes to players. Why would they settle for the girl who tops out at 60 when they have a dozen others that throw 65+. Does that mean your DD sucks because she doesn't hit the top 1% in terms of velocity? Of course not, but a lot of bucket dads seem to take it that way. There are plenty of colleges out there that will take your DD if she is a good pitcher. Sure, she might not play on the national team or in the SEC or whatever. Guess what...neither will 99% of the population. If she throws well enough to get a free or discounted education doing something she loves isn't that enough?

Bottom line, have intelligent, meaningful and efficient practices and velocity will come. If she can't throw hard enough to get the attention of the SEC or major D1 programs there are still plenty of places that would be interested.

Saw a very good JUCO team win a game in the 7th 1-0 with the opposing pitcher topping out at 55. The next game their pitcher was 60 to 62 and the good team scored 14 in the first.

"I was reading thru this thread just waiting to make the Kaitlin Lee comment"


Oh dang, I forgot about her. I guess that settles it then.