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Thread: Part Vent and part observation:

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    Ex "Expert" Cannonball's Avatar
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    Default Part Vent and part observation:

    Please consider this as part vent and part observation. Something that has amazed me in my time in coaching both on sites like this but, more importantly to me, on teams I coach is the inability of parents/dads mostly to admit that their guru's stuff simply is not working for their child and therefore just might not be the answer. How long does it take for parents to understand this? For example, I can cite one example of a player going 0-28 and yet, the parent remained loyal to their guru and promoted said guru for others. I just shake my head at that. On these various sites, I can recall poster's who's dds or sons (I moderate a couple of baseball websites.) and they remained loyal for a very long time. These same parents then try to get others to seek out the guru. Naturally, there were the cases in the "hitting wars" where it got real nasty as some parents figured stuff out and others refused to see what was going on. (That would be on both sides.)

    As I've thought about this, the one common denominator is that the guru always promotes their stuff as the MLB Swing or the High Level Swing and assure all that will listen that they have unlocked the answer. This is followed by the mention of several MLB players or high level softball players, video of same and then some statement that the guru teaches this swing. The parent most often doesn't have the information early on to dispute these points. Still, when you see swings that are so far removed from what was shown in the video or you have swings that lack "adjustibility" and so lead to high strikeout rates, I would think that the parents would figure this out and move on. One that eats me in particular is a "guru" who teaches what I would call a 2 part swing where the hitter starts the load/unload, stops momentum after getting that foot down early and then finishes the swing having killed the running start.

    As a hitting coach, I do my best to teach the same things I taught my dd. I do my best to keep up with the changes going on. I know the history of most of the changes and the changes that aren't really new but just different takes on old but good stuff. Sometimes it is hard for me to let some stuff go and just move on. Thanks for letting me vent.
    My opinions here are simply that, My Opinions. I'm an ex expert. I no longer care to have to be right.

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    Certified softball maniac GunnerShotgun's Avatar
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    As a coach I have found that parents do not like to admit that they are paying money for poor private coaching.

    I have the same observations as you do in that if they aren't having success hitting/pitching/fielding/catching I often wonder and sometimes point out to the parents that they should be looking for a different private instructor. That conversation goes poorly 90% of the time.

    As a coach I just want the players to play at a high level (and win)...I don't care who you go to for private lessons (mom, dad, sister, neighbor, pizza delivery guy, ex MLB player) I just need to see results at a high level on the field. If you aren't getting that why do you continue to pay for it?

    Don't get me started on the players that have multiple hitting coaches (and are hitting in the mid .200's halfway through the summer)...

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    Going broke on softball ArmyStrong's Avatar
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    CB, thanks for posting this. It is very timely with my DD's journey. As we "try out" hitting coaches and pitching coaches, a great many come highly recommended, but often criticized by other coaches. Unfortunately ego gets in the way many times. In the end, as a parent, I'm trying to find the skills coach that DD will improve with because she can relate with that coach and can understand his/her cues. I am conflicted with the "forced loyalty" to work with the skills coach recommended by the HC, especially when DD doesn't get what the skills coach is trying to get her to do.

    Now, as an AC, I know something about being loyal to a team, but when DD is struggling at the plate, changes need to be made to make her successful and able to help out her team.
    On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days, on other fields will bear the fruits of victory. - Douglas MacArthur

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    Going broke on softball ArmyStrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerShotgun View Post


    As a coach I just want the players to play at a high level (and win)...I don't care who you go to for private lessons (mom, dad, sister, neighbor, pizza delivery guy, ex MLB player) I just need to see results at a high level on the field. If you aren't getting that why do you continue to pay for it?
    ^^Exactly. Unfortunately, many HCs out here have difficulty putting pride aside to think that way.
    On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days, on other fields will bear the fruits of victory. - Douglas MacArthur

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    Administrator Ken Krause's Avatar
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    I think part of the problem is everyone is directed to judge an instructor by that instructor's best, most successful students. Who usually are also the most talented athletes who would succeed no matter what you were teaching them.

    To me, the best way to judge an instructor is to look at his/her least-gifted students. If the instructor is helping those kids succeed, you probably have a winner there. Also the instructor's willingness to take on that type of student, i.e., one who is willing to learn but a bit challenged on the ability side. A lot of instructors won't take on that type of player because they only want to work with the "good" ones. I know of one near me who is like that.
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    Certified softball maniac GunnerShotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Krause View Post
    I think part of the problem is everyone is directed to judge an instructor by that instructor's best, most successful students. Who usually are also the most talented athletes who would succeed no matter what you were teaching them.
    This is the most frequent response I hear. I go to 'Private Coach X'. His daughter played at "Big Time College" 10 years ago.

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    Ex "Expert" Cannonball's Avatar
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    Wow, there are some great responses here! ArmyStrong, you are right. A lot of it is ego and ego in a couple of ways. The parents don't see the acutal damage that poor instruction can do and a part of that is ego and then, there is the ego of the guru who refuses to continue to evolve. GunnerShotgun, you are also correct that it doesn't often work out when others point out to a parent that they aren't getting what they are paying for and I have tried including taking video and breaking it down to show that what the parent is being told is a total fabrication.
    My opinions here are simply that, My Opinions. I'm an ex expert. I no longer care to have to be right.

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    Ex "Expert" Cannonball's Avatar
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    You made a choice long ago to take control and control what you can control. I wish that others would do such diligence. RD, no one can question that you have put in the time.

    Oops, noticed that you deleted post. Anyway, I'll stand by this statement and you!
    My opinions here are simply that, My Opinions. I'm an ex expert. I no longer care to have to be right.

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    It wasn't me. rdbass's Avatar
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    I think it comes down no matter whom or who you have as a hitting coach or guru it comes down to your God given talent.....Size, weight, speed, ect.... We all seen 'bad' swings that succeed and 'good' swings that have failed. Comes down to God given talent. Plus most parents are lazy and wont or can't put in the time that some do.
    My DD plays DIII she wasn't 'blessed' with God given talent. She is able to continue to play because she is willing to work hard on the off season. Lucky she has a dad that is still able to manage to help. Getting harder for dad.
    Last edited by rdbass; 06-08-2018 at 09:19 PM.
    I don't know sh!t from shinola!

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    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdbass View Post
    I think it comes down no matter whom or who you have as a hitting coach or guru it comes down to your God given talent.....Size, weight, speed, ect.... We all seen 'bad' swings that succeed and 'good' swings that have failed. Comes down to God given talent. Plus most parents are lazy and wont or can't put in the time that some do.
    My DD plays DIII she wasn't 'blessed' with God given talent. She is able to continue to play because she is willing to work hard on the off season. Lucky she has a dad that is still able to manage to help. Getting harder for dad.
    If given the opportunity the six sigma talents (we'll assume the talent distribution is Gaussian for this conversation ) are pretty much going to succeed (in terms of playing and succeeding at the highest level) no matter what, as you said. Likewise regarding "failure" on the other end of the spectrum. Everybody in between, e.g the other 99.999% of the population, is effected by many things including environment (e.g. were you born in CA or MA), instruction, work ethic and unfortunately luck. Thing is nobody really knows what their ceiling is. If after a girl is done with her playing career she can say she did everything in her power to succeed (this includes controlling the mental aspect of the game, something which I personally was an abject failure at) then that, to me, is the definition of success regardless of what level she played at.
    Last edited by pattar; 06-09-2018 at 07:24 AM.

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