How fast to first base????

joe720 said:

Never got the point of not doing a simulated swing and run. I've always timed girls that way. I've yet to take part in or see any game where a batter was allowed to get into a runners position after hitting a ball. If your foot work isn't good after a hit, who cares how fast you are from a sprinters position?

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Speed, pure speed. You can learn ways to get out quicker. You cant teach God given speed.

joe720 said:

Never got the point of not doing a simulated swing and run. I've always timed girls that way. I've yet to take part in or see any game where a batter was allowed to get into a runners position after hitting a ball. If your foot work isn't good after a hit, who cares how fast you are from a sprinters position?

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I actually make my girls bunt for real. Stopwatch starts when I hear the ping of the bat. Our times might be slightly slower than a team starting in runners start, but man are my times accurate and more game like.

EC22 said:

Speed, pure speed. You can learn ways to get out quicker. You cant teach God given speed.

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Listen to Domingo, and learn why you're wrong about not being able to teach "God given" speed!

Measuring what they do in real life situations or as close to them as possible is important. On our team we have 2 fast girls. One girl is 5'4" and is going to a mid-major D1 as a slapper. She is fast she beats out bunts in 18u A TB that are right back to the pitcher or third baseman if they hesitate at all. This girl is the fastest or second fastest girl I have ever seen at the TB level. I coach first you do not need a stop watch to know that she is elite fast. At one practice we had 4 people timing her home to first speed. Guess what? They all came up with different times. When we are talking about 1 or 2 tenths being the difference between ok and fast it is hard to measure.
The other fast girl on the team is my 6' DD. She is only average to first. She has a hard time getting started after the swing and it takes her halfway down the line to get up to speed. Lucky for her she is a power hitter. Put these 2 girls on base to steal and it is no contest. DD has not been caught stealing in 2 years. The slapper gets caught stealing 20% of the time. DD gets a better jump (cheats/pushes the limit) and has a better head first slide. When you watch them on the bases (stealing or 1st to 3rd) you come away with the conclusion that DD is faster. In college I think the Slapper will get better on the bases but there is split second decision making on the bases that also makes a difference. Some of that can be taught and helped but some of it is pure instinct.

Putting these girls in 3 different scenarios results in different outcomes
Track sprint: the Slapper wins hands down
Home to first in game: the Slapper wins hands down
Stealing bases: DD wins hands down

Home to first times as with pop times are very subjective. Methods vary widely, then add in the human factor and the result is a textbook apples to oranges comparison. The only value in these exercises is to compare one player with another within the same event. You can not compare a home to first or pop time collected at one event with the results from another event.

In order to provide an objective standard some clinics have gone to 20 yard dashes timed with a laser. This is a great measurement of pure speed and the values collected at one event should be able to be compared with another event using the same methodology. But those values in no way can be equated to a home to first time. Home to first is NOT 20 yards and what counts is when your foot hits the bag, not your torso breaking a laser beam. Depending on the location of the pitch and the aggressiveness of the slapper the distance may be a good bit less than 20 yards / 60 feet.

I will tell you that based on my college scouting experience the de facto standard for most college coaches is the sound of the bat and the foot on the bag under game conditions.

My dd supposedly ran a 2.7 home to first at an SEC camp. The teams ss did her home to first and exit speed. I swear she just liked dd and was trying to help her out. She is usually 2.9, 3.0 ish.

For whatever it’s worth, she was really slow when she started playing. (10u). It really improved with playing and a running training program that she actually enjoyed.

Westwind said:

My dd supposedly ran a 2.7 home to first at an SEC camp. The teams ss did her home to first and exit speed. I swear she just liked dd and was trying to help her out. She is usually 2.9, 3.0 ish.

For whatever it’s worth, she was really slow when she started playing. (10u). It really improved with playing and a running training program that she actually enjoyed.

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Is there anything in particular you think helped her build her speed more than other things?

Yep- we have a local athletic training program that is run by a husband and wife. They train kids from 8+ and teach them running form and train core strength, mostly by “doing” in a group format. The program and business was originally created by physical therapists. Their claim to fame is training very young athletes in a way that prevents injury and results in early development.

I think a large part of the success is the personality of the wife. Let’s call her “Shannon”. She is an IT analyst by day but has a larger than life persona in the gym. She is constantly cajoling, kidding, singing, prodding and celebrating those little moments when she pushes someone to the point of vomiting. She had “I Hate Shannon” tee shirts made for the kids. They just love her.

They mix ages in the classes. It’s exactly what they talk about in “The Talent Code”. Local semi-pro football players could be working out right next to a ten year old kid. Everyone comes out drenched in sweat.

Also just like in “The Talent Code”, this all takes place in a very ordinary environment. It’s far from a glistening well lit workout facility. Some parents turn their noses up at it. The running portion is in the warehouse of a heating and air conditioning business. It’s HOT in the summer.

This may all sound exactly like what responsible parents shouldn’t do but it was one of the best things our kids were ever involved in. The instructors are all certified, when you talk to them they can explain what they are doing and why it works.

Westwind said:

Yep- we have a local athletic training program that is run by a husband and wife. They train kids from 8+ and teach them running form and train core strength, mostly by “doing” in a group format. The program and business was originally created by physical therapists. Their claim to fame is training very young athletes in a way that prevents injury and results in early development.

I think a large part of the success is the personality of the wife. Let’s call her “Shannon”. She is an IT analyst by day but has a larger than life persona in the gym. She is constantly cajoling, kidding, singing, prodding and celebrating those little moments when she pushes someone to the point of vomiting. She had “I Hate Shannon” tee shirts made for the kids. They just love her.

They mix ages in the classes. It’s exactly what they talk about in “The Talent Code”. Local semi-pro football players could be working out right next to a ten year old kid. Everyone comes out drenched in sweat.

Also just like in “The Talent Code”, this all takes place in a very ordinary environment. It’s far from a glistening well lit workout facility. Some parents turn their noses up at it. The running portion is in the warehouse of a heating and air conditioning business. It’s HOT in the summer.

This may all sound exactly like what responsible parents shouldn’t do but it was one of the best things our kids were ever involved in. The instructors are all certified, when you talk to them they can explain what they are doing and why it works.

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Thanks WW! It actually sounds like the change came from within your DD first. Do you think she would have found that in any other program? What do you think brought out that desire to change?

I think that program was well suited for her because she liked going and she does well in a group environment. There was a subtle competition going on. I think It helped to work out with older kids too. In her head I think she thought “I can do what those older kids and boys are doing”. She loved beating the boys, lol. I don’t know if that would have happened in an individual setting but I’m sure a really talented one on one or small group instructor would have no problem doing it.

Another thing: Her original 10u coach worked on base running every practice. (This was one of many smart things that guy did. He was awesome.). We parents would joke tongue in cheek “how this team was built on speed” and we would laugh. Well, after a couple years of this and our dd working out, we went to a big tournament that had opening day activities and we won a team base running contest. It shocked all of us parents. I guess it had been a slow transformation that none of us recognized.

Speed can be worked on but it has to be in the right environment. We just got lucky I think.