Obstruction / out for initiating contact?

[BretMan]

That is an out at time of contact, no sub. runner.

Which rule are you applying that says this is an out?

 

[quincy]

I am hoping you will straighten me out.

I am learning a lot from your replies. thank you.

 

[BretMan]

So if the runner (or 1B coach) sees the umpire signal obstruction, then wouldn't it be the smart move for the runner to continue to 2B?

It can be. You can also "outsmart" yourself and it can backfire.

- Umpire could judge that the obstruction happened before first base. A runner continuing to run would "overrun" her protection and get thrown out at second.

- Runner could subsequently violate the Look Back Rule and be out.

- Runner could subsequently commit an act of interference and would be out.

- Runner could pass another runner and be out.

- Runner could overslide second base and be tagged out.

- Runner could miss touching first or second and be called out on an appeal.

- There could be an intervening play on another runner and the obstructed runner would lose her protection from being put out.

So it's NOT "automatic" that your runner is going to be safe somewhere after the play. My experience is different than yours in that most of the umpires I see and work with do know the correct way to enforce the obstruction penalty. In that case, your best bet is to not try to "outsmart" the call and let the umpire handle placing the runner after the play.

 

[quincy]

So... if the runner is safe at 1st, rounds 1st, intentionally blows up the first baseman and get booted for UC:
Is the runner out at first?
Can they enter a sub to take her place on base?
If no sub is the runner then out?

Is the runner out, no sub?

 

[MTR]

So... if the runner is safe at 1st, rounds 1st, intentionally blows up the first baseman and get booted for UC:
Is the runner out at first?

Not for UC.

Can they enter a sub to take her place on base?

Yes

If no sub is the runner then out?

If there is no sub, the game is over.

 

[quincy]

So... if the runner is safe at 1st, rounds 1st, intentionally blows up the first baseman and get booted for UC:
Is the runner out at first?

I am missing something.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I am missing something.

translation = runnter is thrown out of the game for unsportsmanlike conduct, but not called out (as in 3 outs per half inning).

 

[fastpitch]

Just an update. I got a chance to speak to the ump (with my new found knowledge - thanks). He did seem confused about the rules as he quoted me this:

Rule 8 - Section 7 - Q states - When the defensive player has the ball and the runner remains upright and crashes into the defensive player - EFFECT - The ball is dead the runner is out. If flagrant the offender will be ejected.

Explaining to me that he could have thrown her out for making contact and said it was a judgment call. I didn't want to debate anymore as I could feel he made up his mind even though the rule he quoted me described an inicident when the defensive player has the ball (in my case she didn't). But I guess he meant he could have thrown out the batter/runner for UC for making contact with the first baseman.

Which brings back the question... how do you teach your runners to round the bag when a defensive player is on the bag (without the ball)? I don't want someone steamrolling another player but I always thought the runner had the right to the baseline and if the defensive player was in the way (without the ball)... she runs the risk of being run into or at least some contact being made causing obstruction.

Maybe I should start a new thread...

 

[BretMan]

Your umpire apparently needs some traning. He's applying the wrong rule to the wrong situation to justify making the wrong call!

 

[MTR]

Just an update. I got a chance to speak to the ump (with my new found knowledge - thanks). He did seem confused about the rules as he quoted me this:

Rule 8 - Section 7 - Q states - When the defensive player has the ball and the runner remains upright and crashes into the defensive player - EFFECT - The ball is dead the runner is out. If flagrant the offender will be ejected.

This is true, but the runner is out for interfering with the defenses attempt to make a play, not for the UC.

As Bret noted, I don't think this is the rule for the situation we are discussing.