DD Bat Drag ?

[HYP]

Of course it moves in an arc. But, the thought process is to get it down quickly from above. It doesn't literally go straight down, like chopping wood, but the thought and feel is to take it forward. The rearward arc just happens as you said in the other post. The shoulders tilt and turn to get the barrel flat. And, the tilt and turn is mostly instinctive, but in some cases it must be taught, because if you don't tilt them as they turn, then you do wind up with very little arc and a chopping down through the ball's path.

What I have discovered with teaching tilt. It only has to be taught because someone taught it right out of them by telling them to keep their shoulders flat or don't drop your back shoulder.

 

[jbooth]

Keeping the hands above the ball is the key. The barrel is down to the ball or down behind the ball. Not chop down.

That's correct. But, that doesn't mean you can't throw the barrel down with ulnar deviation after the back elbow drops. That movement still puts the bat in a rearward arc, and turns the palm up. The palm turns up as you throw, not before.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

That's correct. That's why I never say swing down. They will literally chop wood, down across the ball path. The pros get it to start down and then immediately flatten, through a combination of the spine angle, the tilt of the shoulders, getting the front elbow up and the top hand turned palm up, which also gets it a bit below the bottom hand.

Almost sounds like you are describing the swing as 'carve and fillet'.

Regarding the 'fillet' ... it isn't uncommon for some pros to think of a 'level swing' to obtain that 'fillet'.

 

[jbooth]

What I have discovered with teaching tilt. It only has to be taught because someone taught it right out of them by telling them to keep their shoulders flat or don't drop your back shoulder.

EXACTLY! I frequently have to teach it to girls who have been told to keep the back shoulder up. When you keep the back shoulder up, the only way you can get the barrel to the ball is to make it go down through the ball path.

That's why I said that Bonds probably doesn't even think about that, but that is how his barrel path flattens. His and all MLB hitters. They just do it.

 

[RayR]

Or drop your hands....

EXACTLY! I frequently have to teach it to girls who have been told to keep the back shoulder up. When you keep the back shoulder up, the only way you can get the barrel to the ball is to make it go down through the ball path.

That's why I said that Bonds probably doesn't even think about that, but that is how his barrel path flattens. His and all MLB hitters. They just do it.

 

[jbooth]

Almost sounds like you are describing the swing as 'carve and fillet'.

Regarding the 'fillet' ... it isn't uncommon for some pros to think of a 'level swing' to obtain that 'fillet'.

Call it what you wish, but the carve and fillet is not just hand action. It is hand action combined with a change in geometry of the path, due to change in body position also. The shoulder dip and front elbow lift, etc.

 

[RayR]

Yup - and having them literally try to not rotate the shoulders and just work the barrel and hand path....

What I have discovered with teaching tilt. It only has to be taught because someone taught it right out of them by telling them to keep their shoulders flat or don't drop your back shoulder.

 

[jbooth]

Or drop your hands....

I shouldn't have said "the only way", but you get it, that keeping the shoulder up is not a good thing. It causes you to have to compensate in some other way, that is not good, in order to get the barrel to the ball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

That's correct. But, that doesn't mean you can't throw the barrel down with ulnar deviation after the back elbow drops. That movement still puts the bat in a rearward arc, and turns the palm up. The palm turns up as you throw, not before.

IMO the bulk of ulnar deviation of the top hand occurs between the 'bat lag position' and through contact (unhinging). You will often see the top hand wrist radially deviated and extended at a max point in approximately the 'bat lag position'. It is a feel of the wrists moving fast ... something Ted Williams was big into feeling IMO.

p.s.
Edited to add photo.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Call it what you wish, but the carve and fillet is not just hand action. It is hand action combined with a change in geometry of the path, due to change in body position also. The shoulder dip and front elbow lift, etc.

Yes ... the barrel arc changes ... even Williams was known to speak of a "level swing" to assist in obtaining that modification of the arc. And yes ... there is hand action supported by the body. The hands are a sensor ... and the body is being used to achieve the objective.