DD Bat Drag ?

[RayR]

C'mon....are we really going back to the Dark Ages of hitting? Shoulder rotation brings the hands around? What a friggin' shame that we have to travel back to this non sense...this should be an Epcot attraction in the Spaceship Earth attraction right before we see Michelangelo painting the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel...

I think you are asking PaulN, but if you don't understand that the shoulder rotation brings the hands around, you need to learn more about physics and bio-mechanics.

Turning the box doesn't mean that you cannot also use the hands to turn the barrel. There aren't mutually exclusive.

"Keep the hands back" which is a phrase used at the MLB level, is meant to insure that the hands get pulled around by the body. The bat is connected to the hands, therefore, the body puts the forward momentum into the handle. The forearms/wrists throw the barrel, AFTER the torso gets the hands moving.

You and others don't seem to understand this. Why would you put so much emphasis on driving the hips, if it wasn't meant to move the bat? Do you understand the kinetic link that exists in a baseball swing? You must connect the bat to the kinetic link, and that is done by keeping the hands back.

Do you not see his hands and shoulders turning simultaneously, like a box turning?

Sure, he uses his hands also, to throw the barrel, but the hands are moving because they are connected to his shoulders, which are turning.

From frame 21 to 50, the hands are going toward the plate. At 50, they change direction and go at the ball until 75. This simple change of direction creates the tangential acceleration of the barrel. The shoulder rotation is moving the hands. At frame 75, they change direction again, and pull in. This creates even more acceleration of the barrel. These moves, combined with a throwing action, give maximum velocity at impact.

 

[RayR]

Just for those out there trying to make sense of all this jibberish...it is a total waste of time to entertain, let alone teach you kids a swing where they try and turn body parts in a certain order and the bat MAGICALLY hits the ball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

C'mon MTS ... it isn't like you can instruct a hitter to "turn the barrel" and their 'bat drag' issue will suddenly improve. I mean really ... if it was that easy then a 9yo girl could figure it out, with the help of her dad, simply by reading that advice on the Internet ... and it would be difficult to sell a webbook on "Fixing Bat Drag" where the solution is to glue the bat barrel to the rear deltoid.

Albert Einstein: "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."

 

[PaulN]

Gibberish to "some".....

Just for those out there trying to make sense of all this jibberish...it is a total waste of time to entertain, let alone teach you kids a swing where they try and turn body parts in a certain order and the bat MAGICALLY hits the ball.

Followers of the "hand centric swing mechanic" cult may consider the concept of upper body rotation moving the hands gibberish which is what I expect those who are only capable of seeing and hearing what we are capable of seeing and hearing.

The concept of momentum transfer may be gibberish to you but to someone trained in physics/biomechanics it is totally understandable. As is the role of rotational connection in the swing process.

The real gibberish (my opinion ) is the mysticism propagated by those who believe that the hands control all aspects of the swing. These unfortunates have no understanding of how the body actually works and that it takes coordination and cooperation of the bodies 650 (approximate number) muscle groups to swing the bat. For the sake of I grant let's say that at any given time 30 of these muscle groups are being used to swing the bat. 30 muscle groups chosen out of 650 yields 466227553000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 different possible combinations of how you use those muscles to swing the bat.

This led to Nicholas Bernstein formulating the theory of coordinative structures ( Motor coordination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), i.e. that there were just too many combinations (degrees of freedom problem) of muscle group utilization and that the body had to figure out a way to simplify controlling them. But that's a topic for another day.

The point being is that the same thing is happening with the swing process that in the highest level swings is a simplification process which marries the combination of momentum transfer and controlling the bat. The simplest way to get the bat moving simply connected to the rotation of the torso.

Another pet peeve of mine is attempts to show swing path patterns using flat (two-dimensional) clips. Can be done i.e. To accurately show a point moving through space you need three dimensions i.e. each point space requires three coordinates.

The closest you can come using two dimensions is if movement is in the plane that you are viewing and reviewing orthogonal (90°) to the plane. The clip of Frank Robinson swing the bat comes pretty close to this requirement. And for those who are willing to open their eyes and minds I would hope this is of value in understanding how the hands of being moved by the rotation of the upper body.

Motor coordination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[softballphreak]

Do you mean the batter's focus is on turning the upper torso until the hands fly around?

 

[PaulN]

Mankins top hand torque "revisited"....

.... until the hands fly around?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you mean until the hands "release" meaning that the hands are captive to the shoulder rotation until the point of release, then yes.

And by "release" I'm not talking about a passive process where you are relying entirely on centripetal celebration to move the bat head out from the tight circle that it is in following shoulder rotation. By release I mean a very aggressive attempt by the wrists to move the head of the bat out and around. But what must be emphasized here is that it is not the hands projecting to the ball i.e. pushing the hands out it is an active process of trying to pull the knob the bat around while you are trying to push the head of the bat out.

Many moons ago I had many arguments regarding the concept of Jack Mankin's belief in top hand torquei.e. that the swing was powered by torquing of the bat with the hands. If you modify Mankins top hand torque to saying that the release is an attempt to "oar lock" the bat i.e. pull with the bottom hand push with the top hand I would have to think very hard as to my objection to this.

again it must be understood that the release of the bat is a very subtle event i.e. it coincides with the deceleration of the shoulders which then accelerates the bat through momentum transfer.

 

[RayR]

I choose "a" or "b" or both

The real gibberish (my opinion ) is the mysticism propagated by those who believe that the hands control all aspects of the swing. These unfortunates have no understanding of how the body actually works and that it takes coordination and cooperation of the bodies 650 (approximate number) muscle groups to swing the bat. For the sake of I grant let's say that at any given time 30 of these muscle groups are being used to swing the bat. 30 muscle groups chosen out of 650 yields 46622755300000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0 different possible combinations of how you use those muscles to swing the bat.

Don't try and cloud the simple (although not so easy) action of hitting a rock with a stick.

But, maybe you can understand my

hand centric swing mechanic

philosophy from this perspective....

Each hand contains (plus or minus... everyone is different, and everyone counts these things differently...)
29 major and minor bones (many people have a few more).
29 major joints.
At least 123 named ligaments.
34 muscles which move the fingers and thumb:
17 in the palm of the hand, and
18 in the forearm.
48 named nerves:
3 major nerves.
24 named sensory branches.
21 named muscular branches.
30 named arteries and nearly as many smaller named branches.

About a quarter of the motor cortex in the human brain (the part of the brain which controls all movement in the body) is devoted to the muscles of the hands.

Many of the muscles that control the hand start at the elbow or forearm. They run down the forearm and cross the wrist and hand. Some control only the bending or straightening of the wrist. Others influence motion of the fingers or thumb. Many of these muscles help position and hold the wrist and hand while the thumb and fingers grip or perform fine motor actions.

Nerves
All of the nerves that travel to the hand and fingers begin together at the shoulder: the radial nerve, the median nerve, and the ulnar nerve. These nerves carry signals from the brain to the muscles that move the arm, hand, fingers, and thumb. The nerves also carry signals back to the brain about sensations such as touch, pain, and temperature.

 

[softballphreak]

My mental image of "release" is "letting go". To me this is a non-action as opposed to an aggressive action. To me, throwing the barrel at the ball is more what I feel than simply letting the barrel go (releasing).

 

[tom.guerry]

importance of hand controlled pivot (Body) in golf, the hands are not "just clamps":

Lynn Blake/The Golf Machine:Just because you use your Pivot components properly doesn't mean you've all of a sudden got a Pivot-Controlled-Hands Procedure. Your Hands are still responsible for executing all the On Plane Geometry, and the Pivot Components must comply. In other words, they do their own work (9-1 and 7-12) as Power Package Transport, but they in no way interfere with the Hands in the process. And they definitely don't tell the Hands what to do.

Trust me: You don't Trace the Plane Line with your Pivot. You don't sustain Clubhead Lag with your Pivot. And you don't control the Clubface alignment with your Pivot. You perform these Three Imperatives with your Hands.That said, mastery of the Pivot is crucial to a good Golf Stroke. In fact, that is why two of the Three Essentials, the Stationary Head and Balance-- both in the realm of the Pivot -- are so important.

But the Pivot, left to its own ignorance, can with its mass and momentum definitely prevent the Hands from doing their assigned work. That is a Pivot-Controlled Stroke, not the G.O.L.F. Hands-Controlled procedure I describe...

Hand Controlled Pivot - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

 

[tom.guerry]

Lynn Blake:Some things -- mercifully -- are not hard. Also mercifully, thisHands-Controlled Pivot business is one of them. It is the most natural thingin the world!

Say you see a dime in the parking lot tomorrow. You reach down and pick it up.Guess what? You just made a "Hands controlled" move! Yes youdid! And you didn't think a thing about it, either. Know why? Because, as Isaid, it is the most natural thing in the world to do!

You didn't think about your weight shifting. You didn't think about yourshoulers going down. You didn't thing about your arm extending. No. You didn'tthink about any of those things.

All you thought about was picking up that free money. Next million on the way.Only $999,999.90 to go! You reached down and picked it up. Your Hands made abee line for the dime because that's the assignment your Computer gave them.And everything else cooperated in exactly the right way.

That is all in the world Hand Controlled Pivot and Alignment Golf are allabout. The only problem is that Golf Stroke Geometry is more complex -- but nothopelessly so...we're still tracing straight lines as we make our circularTotal Motion. And, we are simply unfamiliar with that geometry. It takes workand effort understand the alignments and relationships involved. Not to mentionthat you're playing the smallest Ball in field sports, and it is veryunforgiving! [/b]

So, it just takes a while to train all those pieces (the Three Zones) toexecute their respective assignments without at least some of the other piecesinterfering. But learn them you will and then will come that glorious day whenyou will forget the Mechanics and play subconsciously by their Feel. And theywill have absolutely nothing better to do than to simply get out of the way ofthe Hands.

You will note in the Mechanical Checklist of 12-3-0 that there are no PivotComponents included. That is because this is an Alignment Checklist. Andusing this Checklist, the Pivot Components and actions are totally subjugatedto the control of the Hands.

Just like picking up that dime.

How long will it take? How good do you want to be? The better you want to bethe longer and harder and smarter you'll need to work. But no matter how hardyou work or how good you get, perfection -- even relative perfection -- willalways remain slightly beyond your grasp. And that is how it should be.

After all, this is golf.

Not rocket science!

More Hand Controlled Pivot Stuff - LynnBlakeGolf Forums