Discipline

Easton33 said:

Guess you expected the NCAA to confirm they told him to back off? Yeah right. You failed to include this other quote from the same story.
"The Times established that Gilbert, during Wooden's heyday, helped players get cars, clothes, airline tickets and scalpers' prices for UCLA season tickets. Gilbert allegedly even arranged abortions for players' girlfriends."

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That's the free market at work. It's a wonderful thing when people who labor benefit from their labor.

Oh, and about those unruly girls. If they don't want to practice, let them go do something else for the day. Besides, it's December.

Newbie coaches have discipline issues...they find a talented kid and decide to take the kid even though they know there is a lot of baggage. Newbie coaches also keep problem kids on the team because they are talented.

As you get more experienced, you avoid those kids.

CoogansBluff said:

Also remember that this thread began with 14U girls. They've never heard of Woody Hayes. That was 40-50 years ago. He coached young adult men in a different era. I understand why Bear Bryant could use punishment running to cull the herd. If college athletes don't want to compete and win by that point in their lives, they need to be culled. But IMO, that's entirely different than running a 12U travel softball team. There's too much culling of the herd too soon in youth sports, where Bear Bryant-minded coaches suck the fun out of the game for kids that just want to enjoy it and grow and not treat it like it's life and death, at least not yet. Give them time.

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There are different levels of softball (REC, All Stars, TB:C, B-, B, B+, A-, A, A+, Gold), and the expectations increase as the level and age group increases. If a player is not happy with the expectations of her TB team she is free to change teams (and level), unlike HS ball where she has limited choices. I would not consider that "culling", but more of a exercise in finding the right fit. Parents often fuel this "exercise" by pushing their DD to play at a level that is higher than her talent or motivation.

RetiredCoach said:

If we can all agree that winning isn't everything for 14U girls fastpitch softball then, I think, it becomes an easy decision for whom you would want your DD to play for. The short list probably would NOT include Bobby Knight types, Woody Hayes prototypes, et al...

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There are several softball coaches of marquee teams in our area with "Bobby Knight" coaching styles....so they are out there. And to be honest that style of coaching may be what pushes some players to excel. Not saying that method works for everyone, but it does for some.

sluggers said:

Newbie coaches have discipline issues...they find a talented kid and decide to take the kid even though they know there is a lot of baggage. Newbie coaches also keep problem kids on the team because they are talented.

As you get more experienced, you avoid those kids.

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So true. It is much easier to keep a good kid and coach them up. However, new coaches with new teams are sometimes forced into taking leftovers so their other 7 core players have the opportunity to play. Depending on the area you live there can be plenty of girls or just barely enough and that does affect your team composition when starting out. As you go along and get established it is much easier to draw talented well behaved players but of course school ball and rec ball don't have the luxury of picking and choosing.

sluggers said:

Newbie coaches have discipline issues...they find a talented kid and decide to take the kid even though they know there is a lot of baggage. Newbie coaches also keep problem kids on the team because they are talented.

As you get more experienced, you avoid those kids.

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In my coaching career, I have only seen a couple of players with "baggage", but I have seen tons of parents who needed to be avoided. Most players just want to have fun and fit in with the team. The parents are the ones with unrealistic expectations. We had one parent come to tryouts and proceed to tell us that when her DD was not pitching she needed to play SS, and bat 3rd or 4th. It was a "triple face palm" moment for our coaching staff.

JAD said:

There are different levels of softball (REC, All Stars, TB:C, B-, B, B+, A-, A, A+, Gold), and the expectations increase as the level and age group increases. If a player is not happy with the expectations of her TB team she is free to change teams (and level), unlike HS ball where she has limited choices. I would not consider that "culling", but more of a exercise in finding the right fit. Parents often fuel this "exercise" by pushing their DD to play at a level that is higher than her talent or motivation.

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I don't mean the type of culling that goes on through tryouts, competition, etc. I meant the type that Bear Bryant employed, as in the Junction Boys. He wanted to find out who wanted it the most, ie, the ones would endure the most pain and suffering. He was punitive. He tested their desire. And as I said, if you don't have that desire by the time you're playing in major college sports, perhaps you need to be culled. Not that I'm endorsing that sort of treatment, but I recognize that punishment is well tolerated in some situations with certain levels of players. But if you asked me whether I think youth sports could use more or fewer punitive coaches, I'd say fewer. Much fewer.

I agree that different players respond differently to different coaching styles. Perhaps some players excel under a rigid punishing system. However, there are plenty of successful coaches with a "gentler" approach to coaching that makes me think some of these extreme coaching styles are unnecessary--at least it wouldn't be what I choose for my DDs.

RetiredCoach said:

I agree that different players respond differently to different coaching styles. Perhaps some players excel under a rigid punishing system. However, there are plenty of successful coaches with a "gentler" approach to coaching that makes me think some of these extreme coaching styles are unnecessary--at least it wouldn't be what I choose for my DDs.

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Different strokes for different folks, but I think a lot of players choose a coach they think will help get them to the "next level" or will compete for championships. I do not know Nick Saban personally, but I understand he is a real A-hole, yet kids line up to play for him....

Hey, at least you know right up front what to expect.