The State of Softball with Sue Enquist (Jan. 15, 2015)

[chinamigarden]

Anyone know if the Aspen report considers just rec or if it includes travel/AAU participation? Not so much at 6-8, but I wonder if the numbers for the 10-12 age don't reflect so much as a drop in the total number of kids participating sports, but rather a decrease in the number of kids participating in multiple sports due to specialization?

One thing that struck me about the Enquist interview was her excitedly talking about the ability for players to pursue SB year round. At the younger ages, that specialization might be contributing to the problem?

I see you beat me to my point. I am sure the specialization has a lot to do with it.

 

[Jojo]

My local league has 2 teams, 10u, and the rest are lumped into 14u. I hate my 11yr olds having to pitch from 43', especially the beginners.

Over the years I've seen the neighboring leagues drop numbers as well.

There are way too many travel teams here, and all they want is mild experience and they'll take you because everyone is trying to field a team.

Just today I had the dad of my 9yr old contact me about his DD making a travel team. She started to learn to pitch this summer, and has only pitched a few games over the fall. I couldn't understand why he took her to the try-out in the first place? Just to see if she could make it? Around here, just about everyone makes it.
I did explain to him I'd rather see his DD getting lots of quality time in the local league then sitting out on a travel team as the 10yr olds did all the pitching.

The coaches are no better in league ball than travel. I am amazed every day at the coaching stories my students and parents relay to me.
No one wants to teach kids to play anymore or develop skills, they want them already knowledgeable and already trained.

The price is costly as well.
My local league has kept it down to $70. But my niece just signed her boys up at her LL and the cost was over $300 a kid.

 

[YOCOACH]

Once upon a time, 5 years ago, our old rec ball league was, and still is a slow pitch league. We left 5 years ago when DD was 10 going on 11 YO. We had at that time 8 6-9 YO teams, 8 10-12 YO teams, 4 13-18 YO teams and 2 14U fastpitch teams. The reasoning behind the lack of a 12U Fastpitch team was for 2 reasons. The first, the President of the league was told by a HS coach 15 years or more ago that he would much prefer a slowpitch player to FPer because they had the opportunity to play defense much more at the younger ages and he felt they were much better defensively than the FPers that were brought up traditionally through FP SB. Secondly, they felt that their league was made so that all SB players were able to play no matter their skill level and if they introduced FP at the 12U level, they would lose too many players.

Today, they have 4 6-9 teams, have had to expand the age group from 10-12 to 10-13 to have enough players to field 3 teams which they have combined with another league to field 6 teams so that they can actually play and have completely folded the 13-18 age group for lack of participation. They still have 1 14U FP team but that is a hit or miss depending upon whether they can find a TB pitcher and catcher to fill in when they aren't practicing or playing for the TB team since they don't know how to develop either one.

I still spend an awful lot of time down there volunteering for work details etc. and have offered to help them introduce a FP program from the 10U level up but they are quite obstinate in saying that if they did that, they would lose too many players since not everyone can play FP. My response was that in 5 years they have already lost 1 whole division and half of the rest of their teams. How many more do they plan to lose before they fold the girls side?

So, long story short, DD should be starting as a Sophomore catcher this year for her HS V team since we moved her to TB at the age of 11. There are many JV players on the HS team that are Juniors (and Seniors that will have to be cut since they can't play JV) that I had coached years ago in SP but they just can't catch up to the speed of FP either defensively or offensively. Now my question after seeing this is how does SP benefit any player except at the lowest levels?

This, IMO and from what I've heard from many talented players' parents is the major reason as to why they have left the rec league much earlier than they would have. They have told me on numerous occasions that if there were a 12U FP division they would have stayed. Needless to say, had the league had a 10U FP division in which they could have developed pitchers and catchers as well, they would probably still be viable. This wasn't the case then nor is it now. I still offer to go in and help but they still continue to refuse to go to FP. I guess it will take a complete folding of the girls side for them to realize that SP is dead other than coach pitch as far as girls go.

 

[Top_Notch]

I think specialization has a lot to do with it. I see my (9yo) DD pitching 3 -4 times a week for her TB team. When she's not doing that, she's practicing for the local high school basketball team. Sometimes she does a softball practice, to pitching practice, to basketball in the same day! DD plays soccer too, but she'll need to give that up this year. There simply just isn't enough time. Last season I recall her changing shin guards and uniforms in the back of the van from one game to another and we were still late to the game!

Another thing I see that confuses me in my area is the sheer volume of travel ball teams. I originally was worried that DD would find one. Now I don't worry. Just about every team in the area is looking for 1 or 2 players.

 

[Sparky Guy]

I think that some of the money spent on private lessons would be better spent on paid coaches. At the local academies, you have the young people at the desk, in college or just out. I doubt they can make a living just at the desk or even with 5 private lessons a week. Train and hire those young people to coach the teams. Bring the rec and TB together in some sort of local/regional action that means something, rather than serves as a week-after-week obsessive, travel-all-over-the-place activity.

Obviously you've never dealt with an athlete who has finished their college career. They usually, for the most part, are done with the sport. They have witnessed the crazy parents first hand and want nothing to do with them. They want the weekends back they didn't have when playing. They know how much time it takes. They know you can not make a living at coaching youth sports.

You seem to forget the part about being too expensive. The rec parents are not going to go along with paying head coaches. The majority of TB coaches are parents, especially at the lower levels to hold down coasts. TB parents will not give up private lessons. As far as trying to meld rec and travel. It very rarely happens. I tried it once several years ago. The results were disastrous. Unfortunately, the rec ball mentality is such, they are very resistance to change. The parents are far less likely to devote the necessary family time needed for a child to develop.

The greatest majority of travel teams stay local with maybe 1 or 2 overnight tournaments. Some of the teams do not travel any great distance at all. As far as schedule frequency goes it depends on the age. HS players have a very compressed season. They finish HS at the end of May, early June leaving them a 2 month TB summer season. They can not afford to give up any weekends. The younger levels can.

Trying to be everything to everyone is not an answer. Every family has their own personal preferences for their children and seek the level they are comfortable with. Have you ever been through the recruiting process? It's vicious in today's world.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Adults ruined a good thing here. They loaded up a rec team and if that wasn't bad enough, they scheduled the #2 team to play back to back in the season ending tournament. It was crazy and the repercussions are still being felt this year.

 

[Indiana]

The increasing popularity of lacrosse could be a factor. It's easy to learn lacrosse and the equipment is minimal. Around here, rugby is becoming popular with boys and girls. It's a fast paced game, easy to understand, and all you need is the ball.

Softball can be hard to learn and the sport can be frustrating until you get somewhat good at it. I think the key is to figure out how to serve up as much fun as possible when the kids are 5, 6 and 7 years old, so they get hooked on it. Tennis had a similar problem; they reduced the size of the court and changed the ball that little kids use. The game has become more fun and more kids are playing. I've often wondered if baseball/softball could/should do something similar with field size and ball size to make the game more fun and to increase the pace of the game?

 

[Jojo]

The increasing popularity of lacrosse could be a factor. It's easy to learn lacrosse and the equipment is minimal. Around here, rugby is becoming popular with boys and girls. It's a fast paced game, easy to understand, and all you need is the ball.

Softball can be hard to learn and the sport can be frustrating until you get somewhat good at it. I think the key is to figure out how to serve up as much fun as possible when the kids are 5, 6 and 7 years old, so they get hooked on it. Tennis had a similar problem; they reduced the size of the court and changed the ball that little kids use. The game has become more fun and more kids are playing. I've often wondered if baseball/softball could/should do something similar with field size and ball size to make more fun and to increase the pace of the game?

Softball hurts too.
You get hit in the face trying to catch, hit in the legs trying to field, hit in the legs and ribs trying to hit.
A lot of kids quit over fear of the pain involved.
I think it would be neat to see them use the foam practice balls for the very little ones.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Most of our largest sports are seeing major drop-offs in participation, as organized opportunities consolidate around the most talented, committed or well-resourced players. Among children ages 6-12, participation rates have declined in basketball (down 3.9 percent since 2008), baseball (14.4 percent), soccer (10.7 percent), softball (31.3 percent), and football (29 percent). Some newer, smaller sports have seen increases; lacrosse, most notably. Hockey, due in part to major policy interventions, has reversed declines. But on balance, millions of kids and teens are fleeing sports.

Anyone know if the Aspen report considers just rec or if it includes travel/AAU participation? Not so much at 6-8, but I wonder if the numbers for the 10-12 age don't reflect so much as a drop in the total number of kids participating sports, but rather a decrease in the number of kids participating in multiple sports due to specialization?

I believe the report included both rec and club/travel - probably with separate totals for each - in order to make the conclusion in the first sentence. I suspect they're seeing a larger drop-off in rec that isn't being offset by the increase in club/travel.

 

[John T]

I have been on the Board of Directors for a local softball/baseball organization. When I started 8 years ago we had 5-6 softball teams in 10U and 12U, 2-3 teams at 14U and 16U and one 18U team. Now we are lucky to field two teams at the lower levels and one or none at the upper. The problem I see is the downward spiral travel ball causes. Teams have limited pitching because daddy only coaches his daughter to pitch and when she gets older he takes her to the Travel Team and leaves that group of girls without a pitcher and frankly a decent coach. The girls continue to play, but without a pitcher or a coach that can help them get better, and they get their butts kicked and quit...because loosing all the time stinks. The group gets to the upper levels and there is not enough kids to field a local team so they have to find a Travel team to play for in our area. Our high school went from having 40 kids out for softball two years ago (JV and Varsity) to having about 20 kids for both teams.

Now the daddy with the star pitcher is wondering where all the hitters are to help his DD win and get noticed by local colleges (They all got tired of it and quit softball). I know that some are not "Big" on high school ball but it is where it is at in our area and both the quality and numbers are falling off the cliff.

I do not know how our organization is going to fix this but I do know that the answer lies in the coaching at the beginner levels and keeping that coaching around. Showing girls how to throw properly, catch properly and hit properly at a young age will go a long way...