The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[obbay]

Remember a few years ago when , from out of nowhere, they started calling IPs in the WCWS? the officials did it across the board to everyone who leapt or was otherwise illegal and it turned the series on it's ear. rather than watching softball at it's highest level, it became like watching rec ball because skill and strategy kind of went out the window because you never knew when an IP was going to change the momentum or score a run. makes me wonder if that might happen this year as I'm seeing more flagrant violations being ignored.

I thought it was wrong to only start calling it in the WCWS when they hadn't called it all season and on top of that, I don't think it served any constructive purpose but that being said, call it correctly, call it every time and start on Day 1.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

So no one wants to call it at the younger ages as they are all illegal and there wouldn't be any pitching at all. No one wants to call it at the older ages as there is too much money to be made (college coaches, tournament directors, umpires, etc.).

You are doing your daughter a disservice if you don't teach her the art of leaping and/or replanting. It's just another tool in the toolbox at this point.

 

[riseball]

So no one wants to call it at the younger ages as they are all illegal and there wouldn't be any pitching at all. No one wants to call it at the older ages as there is too much money to be made (college coaches, tournament directors, umpires, etc.).

You are doing your daughter a disservice if you don't teach her the art of leaping and/or replanting. It's just another tool in the toolbox at this point.

It is not an art. It is a mechanical defect common in those who never learned to pitch with a natural motion. Got to watch Gourley and Barnhill up close this weekend. From an athletic standpoint one looked like a Ferrari and one looked like a dump truck. If you want to set your kid up to be a mid-tier pitcher who will excel in HS ball and will be subject to getting pulled at any minute, turn her into a dump truck. If you want to give her the best shot possible at being one of the best of the best, playing in college and competing with integrity, run from this leap and replant nonsense. I have to wonder of those that promote this nonsense, have any ever developed an elite pitcher using this or any other technique?

 

[GunnerShotgun]

It is not an art. It is a mechanical defect common in those who never learned to pitch with a natural motion.

So the Hanson Principal doesn't apply here? You can't have it both ways.

 

[FastPitchCat]

So no one wants to call it at the younger ages as they are all illegal and there wouldn't be any pitching at all. No one wants to call it at the older ages as there is too much money to be made (college coaches, tournament directors, umpires, etc.).

You are doing your daughter a disservice if you don't teach her the art of leaping and/or replanting. It's just another tool in the toolbox at this point.

that would be one tool I would NEVER keep in my toolbox.

A disservice? I'm doing my DD a great service by teaching her the proper form, even if the 'bad' form can skip right thru blue (pun intended).
fixing HE was hard enough, fixing skippy? probably much more difficult.
kudos to maddie moss and those AROUND her (parents, coaches, etc) to make that change. i didn't know she used to be a skippy.

 

[grcsftbll]

I wish I had an answer as to why more coaches are not in the umpires face until they do their job.

From a youth softball perspective, I can tell you DH never brings up illegal pitching because we only have one pitcher on our team who is 100% legal almost all the time. They're only 9 and 10 so they're still learning and he does work w/ them during practice when pitching is included, to help them get legal (one of them goes to an instructor who commented about "near perfect form" of one of her students when she was fully airborn in the picture; near perfect, really?). But he doesn't want to start a 'who's pitching illegally' war when we have several girls who are sometimes legal, sometimes not. Could be as simple as that. Don't want it called on us so we're not going to bring it up against the other team...?

 

[riseball]

So the Hanson Principal doesn't apply here? You can't have it both ways.

It most certainly does apply. Are you actually holding Barnill and Silkwood up as model pitchers? Are you serious that you would teach an illegal pitching method to a developing pitcher in the hope that it might somehow provide a competitive advantage? Promoting and teaching this would not only be a disservice to developing pitchers, but it would show a total lack of ethics and disrespect for the sport. The vast majority of the softball community would never go there. People need to understand that no pitcher in the womens game learned this by design. It was the result of poor coaching and being surrounded by enablers saying "Well if she can get away with it..."

Understand that the Hanson principle does not mean you find one off the wall pitcher and model all others after them. All pitchers have mechanical defects. You find common traits among the best of the best, that make mechanical sense and increase performance. Things like IR and BI. Not jumping up in the air, pointing your plant foot toward 2nd base and stride foot toward home, landing and pushing off and throwing ILLEGALLY! That is not the Hanson principle. That is simply using an outlier to justify ones opinion. Kind of like arguing against seat belts because they may trap your in your car if you drive into a lake.

 

[riseball]

Anyone wonder if Barnhill pitched for mid-major D1 and was playing the Gators in Gainesville how many IP's would get called? Would she make it through the 1st inning?

 

[SoftballMom2]

It most certainly does apply. Are you actually holding Barnill and Silkwood up as model pitchers? Are you serious that you would teach an illegal pitching method to a developing pitcher in the hope that it might somehow provide a competitive advantage? Promoting and teaching this would not only be a disservice to developing pitchers, but it would show a total lack of ethics and disrespect for the sport. The vast majority of the softball community would never go there. People need to understand that no pitcher in the womens game learned this by design. It was the result of poor coaching and being surrounded by enablers saying "Well if she can get away with it..."

Understand that the Hanson principle does not mean you find one off the wall pitcher and model all others after them. All pitchers have mechanical defects. You find common traits among the best of the best, that make mechanical sense and increase performance. Things like IR and BI. Not jumping up in the air, pointing your plant foot toward 2nd base and stride foot toward home, landing and pushing off and throwing ILLEGALLY! That is not the Hanson principle. That is simply using an outlier to justify ones opinion. Kind of like arguing against seat belts because they may trap your in your car if you drive into a lake.

Riseball, I hear you and agree. My daughter is mechanically sound..she continues to work on her craft, working on little things and her flaws that creep in. She is same size as Barnhill, very strong and athletic..She looks fluid and balanced and ashe a HS sophomore tops out at 65mph right now. (Has hit 66, been clocked consistently 64-65 in games) However I'll be honest it has crossed my mind.. if she did what Barnhill did would she be able to hit 70s like her??? Maybe....

 

[riseball]

Riseball, I hear you and agree. My daughter is mechanically sound..she continues to work on her craft, working on little things and her flaws that creep in. She is same size as Barnhill, very strong and athletic..She looks fluid and balanced and ashe a HS sophomore tops out at 65mph right now. (Has hit 66, been clocked consistently 64-65 in games) However I'll be honest it has crossed my mind.. if she did what Barnhill did would she be able to hit 70s like her??? Maybe....

I expect that she will have no problem hitting 70 mph in the future. But keep in mind that velocity is the least important of the holy trinity of pitching. I was behind the SC grad assistant charting pitches yesterday. My own DD was working 67-68 and touched 70mph a couple of times. While the antics employed by Barhill, Silkwood, etc. may yield an increase in speed it makes consistency in command and movement very difficult. If you want to model your DD after a pitcher I would lean more toward Gourley than Barnill. FWIW - Gourley at 5'-4" was regularly bringing 65mph yesterday.