Screwball Video
- Thread starter Ken B
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Where is the IR? I don't see the forearm and the wrist rotating towards the center of the body. Shouldn't IR have the palm facing down or back? I see palm up and forward. Or does the defintion of IR not apply when throwing a screwball?
If I, the parent, the catcher, the ump, the coach and ultimately the batter see the movement; must be a very good illusion.
If a pitcher could throw a screwball that actually breaks. why hasn't anyone figured out how to backdoor that pitch? My dd is a lefty with lots of natural movement from left to right. She gets more strike outs looking on the outside corner on RH batters because she starts it outside and it works back over the corner. If a RH pitcher could make the ball move as much (or more) as hers does why wouldn't they try to start it outside and bring it back? Is it because it doesn't really break, or move?
I think SN believes she turning her forearm and hand clockwise through release. Without seeing the actual release up close and in slo mo, I'll never know.
chinamigarden,
I'll take a shot at this. Part of the problem with trying a backdoor screw is the initial release point and trajectory. The RHP pitcher can sell the trajectory to the inside corner because their body motions make the RHB believe the ball is going somewhere else--break or no break. The back door curve works the same way. To the batter, the body motion leads them to believe the ball is going inside.
I'll take a shot at this. Part of the problem with trying a backdoor screw is the initial release point and trajectory. The RHP pitcher can sell the trajectory to the inside corner because their body motions make the RHB believe the ball is going somewhere else--break or no break. The back door curve works the same way. To the batter, the body motion leads them to believe the ball is going inside.
The discussion over screwballs is case in point as to what really is frustrating in the teaching of pitching in the fastpitch community. SN is using IR and so are the other pitchers who claim to throw screwballs. But if you watch pitchers (even at the highest level) do their "screwball" practice flips they try some contortion like movement that is not duplicated when they throw. (which would be ER if they could do it). The spin they get when they do it, does not spin in the direction that they are trying to get the ball to go. It is the biggest hoax in sports. That's why you can't get a "backdoor" screwball because the ball doesn't move it is angled. And to backdoor it you would have to be out of the circle.
- Jul 14, 2008
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You're kidding right?...........From 9:00 behind her to 3:00 in front of her, her wrist/palm rotates from facing out to facing in.......Rotating almost 180 degrees from outward to inward just under her left breast...........How the heck do you think that happens??? Open the URL of the clip in QuickTime and step through the frames forward and backward using the arrow keys........
Huh?.........Man are you lost...........INternal Rotation, although in this clip it does, as does Nelsons, doesn't even have to include moving the arm moving INFRONT OF the body...........It just has to FACE from away from the powerline to TOWARD THE POWER LINE...........Even if the arm never crosses infront of the body..........Even if it's moving AWAY from the powerline........IF it turns from OUT TOWARD IN.........It is INternally Rotating........
Pronation is last link.......It can happen fully.......Partially......Or very little.........Depending on the pitch/mechanic being used..........
Talking to my baseball pitching guru this morning. LHP in MLB for 8 years, lives in our little town.
His "opinion" is that the screw is dominantly a LHP pitch. ( I think he was referring to the BB side ) The biggest factor he says is over a lifetime of pitching for a LH they must learn how to "move" the ball away from higher % of RHB. RHP have an easier pitch to keep the ball low and away. He went on to say he could not clearly explain ( to a righty ) but as a LHP you're constantly experimenting from a young age how to acquire a pitch on the outside. ( consciously or not )
He said he never could get the screw to work for him, and it took a lot out of his arm when he did try to throw it. So he used a circle change, he said it had similar movement but less stressful to his arm.
Long story short from his view. LHP are the "golden ticket" in the Willie Wonka chocolate bar ( I haven't heard that in a while, showing his age ) we/LHP are already different but once you can work the outside on RHB your going to be that much better.
I asked him about FP screw. He admitted he doesn't get to watch much FP but from what he's seen, "to me it's not much of a breaking pitch at all, more of a moving pitch running in or out". He said with the different characteristics of the softball itself, it should have an advantage moving in/out and could be effective.
His "opinion" is that the screw is dominantly a LHP pitch. ( I think he was referring to the BB side ) The biggest factor he says is over a lifetime of pitching for a LH they must learn how to "move" the ball away from higher % of RHB. RHP have an easier pitch to keep the ball low and away. He went on to say he could not clearly explain ( to a righty ) but as a LHP you're constantly experimenting from a young age how to acquire a pitch on the outside. ( consciously or not )
He said he never could get the screw to work for him, and it took a lot out of his arm when he did try to throw it. So he used a circle change, he said it had similar movement but less stressful to his arm.
Long story short from his view. LHP are the "golden ticket" in the Willie Wonka chocolate bar ( I haven't heard that in a while, showing his age ) we/LHP are already different but once you can work the outside on RHB your going to be that much better.
I asked him about FP screw. He admitted he doesn't get to watch much FP but from what he's seen, "to me it's not much of a breaking pitch at all, more of a moving pitch running in or out". He said with the different characteristics of the softball itself, it should have an advantage moving in/out and could be effective.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Because after the last frame shown the catcher is sweeping the ball to give the appearance that it moved.
You have fallen hook-line-and-sinker for the nonsense that was verbalized in the Tincher youtube demonstration. I don’t know about others, but it had me laughing when he spoke of the pitcher targeting the right knee of the catcher (outside area of the plate) because the pitch had so much “movement”. That's why I asked, if the pitch had that much movement, then why the need to step to the leftmost portion of the pitching lane? The answer is because what Tincher is really teaching here is an angled pitch. The catcher is in on the hoax ... and is trying to make it appear that the pitch is moving.
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Locally, Coach Candrea doesn't have his pitchers use it. I suppose I could teach it for TB use, but my students are better prepared perfecting FB, CU and drop. He wants a drop ball and a rise ball. He says that the screw is too hittable at the higher ranks.
