Like I said; there are always outliers (your daughter that doesn’t mind might be one). However you would be surprised about how many girls take it to heart and wait years to say anything to their parents. I usually hear it before the parents do (I’m a semi-retired pitcher/pitching coach for 12 years/clinical adolescent and young adult therapist/psychology professor.)
Pitching practice - How to make pitching practice with a bucket dad more effective
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Like I said; there are always outliers (your daughter that doesn’t mind might be one). However you would be surprised about how many girls take it to heart and wait years to say anything to their parents. I usually hear it before the parents do (I’m a semi-retired pitcher/pitching coach for 12 years/clinical adolescent and young adult therapist/psychology professor.)
Chr1ssy34, my DD is 13. We have had a talk about the difference between observation as feedback and criticism, but knowing that only goes so far. Even though she has a really strong self image, she can sometimes take it to heart. She is so calm, that if I see her get upset, I know I have pointed out too much and I need to back off. If I gain a great pitcher but lose a daughter, then everything is lost.
If for example my DD starts to step off the powerline I would remind her in practice. From the above advice, if she does it repeatedly, I need to change the circumstance and do a drill that highlights that aspect.
The points about limiting the different things to work on in a single session are good advice. I do go into the session with a lesson plan and we talk about what to accomplish as we drive to the field or facility.
One poster suggested getting a small bucket. I do have a half size bucket so the strike zone roughly replicates real life circumstances. One knee surgery ago I would either squat or sit on the ground.
Her PC is really terrific. He is caring, knowledgeable and teaches a process that most in this board would recognize as correct. He is also in high demand and it is sometimes hard to have our schedules line up during the season. So I try to squeeze in workouts to maintain her process and improve what we can. He has given us handouts and I am attempting to reinforce what he teaches.
This is the most fun thing I have ever done. I am just trying to not mess it up and to find the balance between encouragement and overbearing. I am sure I have been both at times.
If for example my DD starts to step off the powerline I would remind her in practice. From the above advice, if she does it repeatedly, I need to change the circumstance and do a drill that highlights that aspect.
The points about limiting the different things to work on in a single session are good advice. I do go into the session with a lesson plan and we talk about what to accomplish as we drive to the field or facility.
One poster suggested getting a small bucket. I do have a half size bucket so the strike zone roughly replicates real life circumstances. One knee surgery ago I would either squat or sit on the ground.
Her PC is really terrific. He is caring, knowledgeable and teaches a process that most in this board would recognize as correct. He is also in high demand and it is sometimes hard to have our schedules line up during the season. So I try to squeeze in workouts to maintain her process and improve what we can. He has given us handouts and I am attempting to reinforce what he teaches.
This is the most fun thing I have ever done. I am just trying to not mess it up and to find the balance between encouragement and overbearing. I am sure I have been both at times.
I would've done diferent with my oldest daughter looking back on things now. My youngest has the benefit of me learning from my earlier mistakes with oldest DD.
chr1ssy34, I'm not sure if we are looking at the same problem differently or different problems.
You assume that every athlete has a pitching coach. Some parents, because of finances or location, don't. We get a lot of questions from kids who don't have coach.
And, are you sure you know the time a parent spends with a child in order to develop a "good" pitcher? My DD and I were out there practicing 4 or 5 days a week, 9 months out of the year, for 5 years or so.
The basic pitching motion is simple and straightforward, not some mystery brought down from the Himalayas by monks.
The parent has to learn how to pitch. If you look at studies, children with parents actively involved in their education than those who do not. The same thing goes for pitching
I agree.
A parent needs to understand the progression and how the pitching motion is "built". Parents also need patience. Some parents think that after two practices, the kid knows how to pitch.
A parent should remember that his/her main job is be the parent, not the coach. However, the reality is that the parent is there during the tournaments and games. If (and this is a big "if") a parent can get his/her emotions out of the way, the parent can be a great asset. If the parent cannot, he/she will do more harm than good.
Where did you get this? There is nothing I'm aware of to support his. I was a boy at one time and have, believe it or not, known lots of boys. IMHO, they are just as vulnerable to an overbearing father as girls.
Yes...and some kids would never play sports if the parents didn't insist the child play sports. And, again, any support other than, "This is what I think"?
A pitcher stands in the center of the softball field and is the center of attention for the game. She will be criticized by everyone...her coach, her teammates, the players on the other team, the umpires and the fans. It goes with the territory.
I'm not saying browbeat the kid, but I don't see the point of treating them like a 5 year old.
I agree about the velocity, and that is a good point. I know with both DD#1 and DD#3, I could be reasonably competitive with them up until they were 16YOA or so (they get bigger and faster each year, I get fatter and slower). A boy down the street played on the HS basketball team, and I couldn't compete with him after he was 13YOA.
I'm not sure there is that much difference about over-protectiveness in 2012. It could be that you usually see female athletes, and they usually have involved parents, but you don't see as many boy athletes. In 2012, boys parents are just as involved and protective as the girls parents.
You assume that every athlete has a pitching coach. Some parents, because of finances or location, don't. We get a lot of questions from kids who don't have coach.
And, are you sure you know the time a parent spends with a child in order to develop a "good" pitcher? My DD and I were out there practicing 4 or 5 days a week, 9 months out of the year, for 5 years or so.
The basic pitching motion is simple and straightforward, not some mystery brought down from the Himalayas by monks.
The parent has to learn how to pitch. If you look at studies, children with parents actively involved in their education than those who do not. The same thing goes for pitching
I agree.
A parent needs to understand the progression and how the pitching motion is "built". Parents also need patience. Some parents think that after two practices, the kid knows how to pitch.
A parent should remember that his/her main job is be the parent, not the coach. However, the reality is that the parent is there during the tournaments and games. If (and this is a big "if") a parent can get his/her emotions out of the way, the parent can be a great asset. If the parent cannot, he/she will do more harm than good.
Where did you get this? There is nothing I'm aware of to support his. I was a boy at one time and have, believe it or not, known lots of boys. IMHO, they are just as vulnerable to an overbearing father as girls.
Yes...and some kids would never play sports if the parents didn't insist the child play sports. And, again, any support other than, "This is what I think"?
A pitcher stands in the center of the softball field and is the center of attention for the game. She will be criticized by everyone...her coach, her teammates, the players on the other team, the umpires and the fans. It goes with the territory.
I'm not saying browbeat the kid, but I don't see the point of treating them like a 5 year old.
I agree about the velocity, and that is a good point. I know with both DD#1 and DD#3, I could be reasonably competitive with them up until they were 16YOA or so (they get bigger and faster each year, I get fatter and slower). A boy down the street played on the HS basketball team, and I couldn't compete with him after he was 13YOA.
I'm not sure there is that much difference about over-protectiveness in 2012. It could be that you usually see female athletes, and they usually have involved parents, but you don't see as many boy athletes. In 2012, boys parents are just as involved and protective as the girls parents.
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To the OP:
This forum is a great place to get a bunch of good ideas. I recommend that you read all, try some and figure out what works for your child. I've tried to avoid the things that will cause long term injury ie. too many reps, weighted balls (at least at a young age). There is alot of well meaning advice, but you have to figure out what works for her. One example: some are adamant that shorter throws for accuracy are a waste of time, but we have found them useful when done in a limited way during warmups. Another: a lot of folks go for a bunch of different type pitches, but we follow Hillhouse, and others, recommendation to stick with the peel and change-up for now, however if those were not working for her, I would have a different view.
I'm not her PC and I don't try to coach her, but I'm at every lesson that she is at, so I will offer advice in the form of regurgitation of what her PC says. Obviously, I'm not to be listened to, by paying someone to coach her I've already demonstrated that I'm ignorant!!
Most of the time she already knows the problem so, we are working away from my comments as time goes on.
At games my one and only goal is not to be "That Dad". I try to maintain an open (no arms crossed) neutral (sort of smiling regardless of the last pitch) and encouraging (nodding of the head and light applause, no shouts of encouragement). Obviously, she has me well trained!!!
IMHO, you have to talk with your pitcher and let her decide where this craziness goes.
This forum is a great place to get a bunch of good ideas. I recommend that you read all, try some and figure out what works for your child. I've tried to avoid the things that will cause long term injury ie. too many reps, weighted balls (at least at a young age). There is alot of well meaning advice, but you have to figure out what works for her. One example: some are adamant that shorter throws for accuracy are a waste of time, but we have found them useful when done in a limited way during warmups. Another: a lot of folks go for a bunch of different type pitches, but we follow Hillhouse, and others, recommendation to stick with the peel and change-up for now, however if those were not working for her, I would have a different view.
I'm not her PC and I don't try to coach her, but I'm at every lesson that she is at, so I will offer advice in the form of regurgitation of what her PC says. Obviously, I'm not to be listened to, by paying someone to coach her I've already demonstrated that I'm ignorant!!
Most of the time she already knows the problem so, we are working away from my comments as time goes on. At games my one and only goal is not to be "That Dad". I try to maintain an open (no arms crossed) neutral (sort of smiling regardless of the last pitch) and encouraging (nodding of the head and light applause, no shouts of encouragement). Obviously, she has me well trained!!!
IMHO, you have to talk with your pitcher and let her decide where this craziness goes.
Males and females ARE different and that is fact. Most importantly people are different in communication styles, ability to take criticism and personality traits. There is no one size fits all style that works for all males, all females or all people so I am not sure what you are talking about when you say a "female" method. When working with both male and female athletes I take these variables into consideration. I see parents that have been over bearing with males as well.
I prefer think of it as a "colorful attitude", but I understand where you are coming from.
I'm not sure they mean well...For many of them, it is an attempt to live vicariously through their child.
I have one DD who played D1 softball D1 and a different DD who played hoops on an extremely competitive D3 team. I have a great relationship with both of them. I really pushed them for perfection at their sports, and I wasn't always nice about it.
But, I spent a lot of time understanding exactly how they were supposed to perform a skill and I was reinforcing what the coach said, not something I picked up from watching ESPN on Sunday morning. We also ended each practice on a positive, and I always complimented them on their work ethic and dedication. I would also do "super-praise" with the kids in front of their sisters and mother.
Additionally, what statistics are there that the DD-father relationship is different for athletes?
One major thing I can agree with is leave the coaching to the coach. It is wonderful you are involved and I am sure it means a lot to your daughter, but be very careful. If you are paying an instructor you must trust their ability and judgment on developing your daughter’s pitching skills. If he or she is a good instructor they will let them know what they need to work on and give her homework.
When parents correct there can be 3 main problems:
1. Pitchers need to learn to self correct which is typically experimented with during practice. When you point out what she is doing wrong it takes the development of this necessary skill away. You could help with the direction sometimes (i.e: remember what your coach said about high pitches? or I can't remember what your coach said about high pitches. Do you remember? Etc. You can even act like you learned something when she remembers
2. A good coach will not point out more than a couple of things at a time to work on. You may notice something else she is doing wrong (which is good to make sure the instructor is on the same page). However it can set practice back if she is focusing on too many things.
3. Let the coach be the coach and you can enjoy catching and being Dad. I can’t stress this enough. A young woman wants and NEEDs positive feedback from a father. Often times girls will only hear the criticism even if you told her 10 things she did right she may only remember the one thing you told her she was doing wrong. This is one of the major differences in male vs. female athletes. (There are always outliers but this is true for many) I am currently conducting a research experiment with a University on female athlete burnout. One of the major reasons we come across all the time is issues in the father-daughter/mother-daughter relationships that “it wasn’t fun anymore” because the parent was too involved and they felt they could “never do anything right.” Etc.
I’m not saying you should NEVER correct but try to keep it to a minimum and give lots of positive feedback.
This is the thread I'm living with right now--I'm glad I found it...I just got yelled at by my DD last night for bringing up her waist bend. She's been working on building her speed during the week and she keeps getting
Frustrated if she can't hear the ball pop. I'll try and remember to let her pitching coach coach. I'll just watch (torture!!)
We sort of hijacked the thread but onto the topic of correcting your dd and how it will affect your relationship. Here is what happened when my dd hit about 13 and I had a realization. She knows more about the practical application of pitching techniques then I ever will. How many of us sit on a bucket and try to correct our dds doing something that we have no practical experience in? Can you make that work, yes but at some point you should accept that she is the expert in the barn, not you. From that day on I start just about every corrective sentence to her with one of these. "What do you think about...?" "have you ever tried...? "I saw (read) something today, what do you think about...?" I get her telling me what she thinks before we even try changing anything. "Does your arm circle feel comfortable today? It looks different to me?" Works a whole lot better then. "your arm circle is off, you need to work on that"
I'm not blowing smoke up her skirt, or saying anything that isn't correct, but its just a different approach. I get a whole lot less resistance, we have much more productive practices and we never come in the house mad about how the session went. Its great, a little respect and acknowledgment of her knowledge goes a long way.
Now if she would just accept that I am the expert in everything else.
I'm not blowing smoke up her skirt, or saying anything that isn't correct, but its just a different approach. I get a whole lot less resistance, we have much more productive practices and we never come in the house mad about how the session went. Its great, a little respect and acknowledgment of her knowledge goes a long way.
Now if she would just accept that I am the expert in everything else.
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