pitching machine or no pitching machine? whats your theory?

[Dabears17]

Why assume we are being negative? They are 8 years old on a rec all star team. Most of them haven't been taught to hit correctly to begin with-- or seen pitchers who can throw strikes consistently, let alone throw strikes at 33+ mph. Is patiently and positively fixing one flaw at a time micro-managing?

And why assume someone who has been coaching for 30 years doesn't know what they are doing and doesn't keep up with the latest coaching methods? Even Sue Enquist admitted she was teaching hitting wrong about 10 years ago and changed what she was teaching.

 

[Dabears17]

You said the guy has assumptions that all girls in a batting cage drop their hands, so don't use it. The approach he said is to stand there correct the batters. That is a negative teaching approach. What you wrote is true, they should be taught the steps to hitting in a positive manner.

When you get to older ages, you will need the machine. Now you may not, but the points of the 30 year veteran are not valid as the reason not to use the machine. You do not have to take his word for it.

Where did I say this 30 year veteran told me to have a coach there correcting the batters? All I said is he told me what flaw players might develop in their swings from them trying to just make contact in a batting cage. And I saw that flaw develop in about half the players. I'm not taking his word for it-- I saw it.

I never said he had 30 years softball coaching experience..... I said he had over 30 years experience in coaching youth and high school sports. He's actually only has about 12 years experience coaching softball.

 

[JJsqueeze]

JJ, we use it to teach rhythm and timing, and it is more like diagonal toss. We go a few feet up the first base line for a righty. You just need to be careful with one tossed deep and outside. We've had really good results incorporating this between tee work and front toss. We vary the speed and actually tell the hitters - "ok, I'm speeding them up a little". Then on to front toss. Again we have seen it help with rhythm and timing. What problems do you see develop with side toss?

BTW - working with short legs on a Jugs machine is good for working on hitting the rise.

SoGa-

My beef with side toss is that there is nothing about it that is necessary and I have yet to hear anyone give me a good reason why side toss should be used over a tee or front toss. The only reasonable thing I have heard is that it allows you to warm up in tight spaces pregame (but so does TCB front toss).

My opinion is that for hitting there are only three basic components to being a hitter. Swing mechanics, timing and being able to deliver the barrel to the ball. That is why I really think there are only a few basic techniques to teach a hitter. Tee work/dry swings to break down and work on their mechanics, front toss to help them practice getting that tee swing into live pitching, machines for timing different speeds and live pitching to put it all together. Side toss does not do any of these things as good or better than other drills and that is why I am against it. It just seems like a drill that was invented for convenience rather than to work on something specific.

As for timing and mechanics being affected by side toss, this is just my opinion, I haven't actually seen anyone ruined by side toss

Drills/advice that get passed down through generations of dad-coaches without anyone questioning their effectiveness are the scourge of the sport and IMO this is one of them (right up there with swing level/squish the bug and point your elbow at the catcher after you release the pitch).

The other thing I don't like is that I feel like it is used as an easy way to keep players active during a hitting practice with no real benefit. it is usually manned by someone just mindlessly feeding balls with no real instruction on what specifically is being worked on.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Not a fan of side toss, either.

On one hand, side toss can be viewed as doing tee work more quickly. That is, you don't have to manually adjust the tee to work on high, low, inside, outside, etc. You just toss to a different locale.

But my complaint is that the reaction time is reduced, and hitters get lazy with their pre-launch mechanics (ie, loading hands). It's painful for me to watch side toss at tournaments. It often becomes a rapid fire drill, with the batters doing nothing that truly resembles a quality swing. Therefore, I prefer a tee is you must hit into a net.

 

[Juggs]

lol went from pitching machines to side toss...cool

short distance pitching behind net - if done over and over with a team (without machine or full live pitching) I feel it hurts more than than anything. I teach my girls to start their "swings" at the point of release of the pitcher. If every practice you see the coming from 20ft away it will screw up your timing. My DDs team almost always struggles in first few games of a tourney until they can get their timing down.

Let me make this fact clear, I wasreferring to pitching machines liek the Jugs and others...NOT PUBLIC BATTING CAGES.

My theory on side side toss. I do side toss in my pre game warm up but after I do tee work. Work lil on mechanics off the tee (half bucket) then the other half is side toss.

 

[Country Boy]

Can you build a house with only using a hammer?

Pitching machine is a tool. Can be used to help teach a skill. Won't do it all by itself. Neither will a T. Or front toss. Or TCB's. Or whiffles. Or anything else.

It can be used incorrectly. Or it can be used correctly by someone that doesn't know what they are doing so it is still not useful.

 

[nanotech14]

lol went from pitching machines to side toss...cool

short distance pitching behind net - if done over and over with a team (without machine or full live pitching) I feel it hurts more than than anything. I teach my girls to start their "swings" at the point of release of the pitcher. If every practice you see the coming from 20ft away it will screw up your timing..

Disagree completely,the machine will hurt timing more then anything. Pitching from 20 ft away is worlds better then a machine. You can very the speed of the pitch to compensate for being close. I never do side toss, it is just like the pitching machine, messes with the batters timing. Dd is extremely successful by not, doing side toss or a machine and it doesn't take her until her second at bat to get her timing down. She gets that done when the pitcher is throwing her warm ups and when she is in the on deck circle. But you may do what you want, your results my very from mine.

 

[nanotech14]

We use the machine to match the velocity of the upcoming pitcher, and we may use more than one speed in practice with side by side matchines. It has helped use dominate on offense.

That only works, if you know the speed of the pitchers. I can see it working for HS, but TB you never know.

 

[nanotech14]

I might be a little lost with what other consider front toss. I full out pitch windmill to dd. I just get closer to cut down on the chances of hitting her with a pitch. I'm not into hitting my dd with a pitch.

 

[riseball]

The question posed by the OP is somewhat faulty as it is really not an either/or proposition. Look at what a pitching machine provides where a ball is shot out at a consistent speed to a specific location. It is absurd to think that type of practice will somehow prepare players to compete against a pitcher who will deliberately change speed and location from pitch to pitch. The value of the pitching machine is the consistency it provides. It is a great tool for working on swing mechanics since the player knows where the ball will be pitch after pitch just as they would hitting off a tee.

To adequately prepare for live pitching you need to simulate as best you can live pitching. There is a reason that Mike White at Oregon personally throws BP to his players. One of the most effective tools we have added to our hitting regimen are the TCB balls. We started using them about a month ago and last weekend at HOF we never hit better. Maybe it was playing in OKC but I have to think the TCB balls were a significant factor in our success.