and away we go...the great "rise" as defined by starting and ending points vs "rise" as curvature upward....
by your definition there would be no difference in pitch between a riseball thrown with backspin and a dropball that misses high.
I don't think anyone debates the starting and endpoints as being low at release and higher when caught, the shape of the curve in between those points is the crux of the debate.
Can't help myself. Had to get a rise out of someone.