I picture a hitter 'looking back' at a ball in the catchers mit. Strikeeeeeeeeeeeee 3 you're out.
Keep your eyes on the ball?
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I picture a hitter 'looking back' at a ball in the catchers mit. Strikeeeeeeeeeeeee 3 you're out.
- Nov 3, 2012
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I think the point is Federer isn't taking his eyes off the ball, but is continuing to track longer back to the point of contact. I think he's trained himself to stay on it longer and he makes contact better than any pro ever has on the forehand and you can't argue with his results. He's not the G.O.A.T in tennis for missing balls. He routinely returns 140+ mph serves cleanly with this technique. For my tennis game, Im applying the Hansen principal and trying to copy what the best does. For my DD softball hitting, Im emphasizing tracking the ball longer into the contact zone.
- May 17, 2012
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I am not a tennis player like you but I will offer up my analysis. Looking at the third picture you can see that he is not using smooth pursuit to follow the ball all the way until contact but he is looking through the back of the racket at the ball (on impact). To do this he has to use a jump saccade as there is no way to track a 100 MPH serve all the way to contact.
When they start making invisible softball bats I might try this.
- Nov 3, 2012
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Gunner,
He's not actually looking through the racquet, but using the contact point as a focal point. Keep in mind the ball is moving very rapidly and the racquet is also moving very fast and again humanly impossible to do. Also the contact point in your picture is a backhand near eye level where it appears hes looking through. He uses this method on low shots - foot off the ground where it appears he would not look through the racquet.
Yes, I think he's using a "jump saccade". Definition: He tracks the ball on a plane and then jumps his visual focus back to the contact zone, like reading ahead in a book. Benefits of the method that can be translated to softball: 1. Makes easier to keep head still through follow through 2. keeps eyes level and focused on contact point.
See the Pete Rose and Andres Gallaraga picture attached. Maybe Charlie Hustle was on to something. It clearly shows them looking down at the contact point and not forward at the point to where the ball was.
The Scholar
- Nov 3, 2012
- 480
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Nadal
Don't see looking behind but, I see SNF.
Open stance forehand is very similar to SNF. Getting power out of the hip coil.
- May 17, 2012
- 2,803
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So we are talking about three different methods to track the ball here.
1. The optimal hitting strategy which is to track the ball with smooth pursuit and fall back the last "X" amount of feet.
2. The optimal learning strategy which is to track the ball with smooth pursuit and then jump saccade to the point of impact.
3. The Federer method where he is actually looking (jump saccade) to the point behind impact (behind the racket).
Research has clearly shown option 1 is the best hitting method. Option two is the best "learning" method.
Why you would want to do option three is beyond me unless you are playing tennis.
The facts behind this have been heavily researched and are undisputed for tennis, cricket and baseball players.
From the website you clearly are referencing:
I wouldn't recommend either of those two methods in the picture for hitting a baseball/softball.
I think you nailed it right here. Highlighted in bold I would have said see through bats.
See it in rht pic. Looking through racket.
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- Nov 3, 2012
- 480
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I think you're confusing concept.
1. I'm saying theres two options 1. A track the ball with smooth pursuit, then use anticipation for the last x feet where the eyes can't perceive the ball.
2. Track the ball with smooth pursuit, and then jump saccade to the point of contact and use that extra information to improve contact.
In the picture you pointed out, theres such a small difference in the visual focal point that its total irrelevant on a ball you cant see moving at rapid speeds. You're crazy to say that Federer doesn't smoothly track balls that are traveling 100MPH +. Federer looks behind the racquet as he hits out in front on the forehand more than the average player which gives the illusion he's looking through the racquet.
I think the point is to tilt the head and look down at the contact point with no head movement and with both eyes on the ball so you can process the convergence. See another example of George Brett doing this.
The only way you could see through your clever little "invisible bat" on a swing if it were eye level and way out in front. If they could make the invisible bat, it would be a difficult for fielders to read the ball of the bat.
[video]http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=federer+forehand+slow+motion&mid=D49CE7B92DA478946D6DD49CE7B92DA478946D6D&view=detail&FORM=VIRE3[/video]
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- May 17, 2012
- 2,803
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And I think you are missing the point. What do you think George Brett is focusing on in that pitcure? Contact?
"There is often an abrupt change in the ball's trajectory
just before the player hits it: the baseball breaks and the
tennis ball bounces. Like batting instructors, tennis
coaches teach beginners to use the strategy with the
anticipatory saccade in order to see the ball hit the racket;
this strategy is probably only useful as a learning tool.
Therefore, we suggest that neither baseball players nor
tennis players keep their eyes on the ball. The success
of the good players is due to faster smooth-pursuit eye
movements, a good ability to suppress the vestibuloocular
reflex, and the occasional use of an anticipatory
saccade.
Sometimes our subjects used the strategy of tracking
with head and eyes and falling behind in the last 5 ft,
and sometimes they used the strategy of tracking with
head and eyes but also using an anticipatory saccade. It
has been speculated (L. Matin, pers. com.) that athletes
might use the latter strategy when they are learning the
trajectory of a new pitch and the former strategy when
hitting home runs."
(A. Terry Bahill Tom LaRitz)
There are so many other research studies on the subject and they all come to the same conclusions regardless of the sport (tennis, cricket, baseball).
