- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,796
- 63
I enjoy your views and respect them as always.
I second this........
I enjoy your views and respect them as always.
Star, I think you mis-understood my reply. My reply was I DO RESPECT that you handle all your posts with a level of professionalism. I DO enjoy your views and input. I was not being sarcastic, I was being complementary.
I know posts can be taken either way sometimes, my intent was I enjoy our conversations.
Dictionary defintion:
Source: Free Online Dictionary
Pronation- to turn or rotate the hand or foreman so that the palm faces down or back
Supination- to turn or rotate the hand or forearm so that the palm faces up or forward
Suggested viewing for visual explanation of pronation and supination:
Source: Youtube
Pronation and Supination of the forearm
Movement Analysis- explained @ (2 minutes and 27 seconds)2:27 and 2:40 of the video
Anatomical Terms of Movement- 2:39 and 2:47 of the video
After you view these videos, ask yourself if there is no supination when you throw a screwball as well as other pitchs.
What Bill IS doing, is attemping to minimize side spin by limiting the amount of internal rotation to the best of his ability. As all high level pitchers do.
That was my point. We TRY. But the fact is WE don't.........
The simple act of "trying" relates to a more "pure" spin......
When we throw a riseball, we acheive slightly more supination (forearm/palm to the sky) on the down swing, keeping our wrist inside the ball longer. The index (control) finger is attempting to cut under and up the front of the ball which delays the internal rotation at the fingers for a moment in time and allows release timing to flow directly at the target with backspin.
"Internal" or "medial" rotation is the act of rotating an external part toward the mid-line of the body.
Internal rotation of the upper arm (humerous):
When this guy pulls the handle across body he is performing "internal" or "medial" rotation of the humerous (upper arm) in the glenohumeral (shoulder) socket.
When he moves the handle back away from the mid-line he is performing "lateral" or "external" rotation of the humerous.
Notice his forearm/wrist are NOT rotating in this clip.
Internal (Medial) Rotation of Upper Arm Example.....
Internal rotation of the forearm/wrist:
When this guy rotates his forearm over to a palm down position, he is "internally rotating" his forearm/wrist. It is also called "pronating". When he rotates his forearm back to palm up, he is "externally rotating", also called "supinating".
Internal Rotation (pronation) of the Forearm/Wrist Example......
This girl is throwing a nice flip change and she is pronating @ 9:00. I thought we were discussing a screwball and I did use supination as well as ER in my initial post on this thread.So you are just figuring this out over 3 years AFTER I wrote about it in my I/R thread??? Welcome to the party!
Your attempt here in this post to divert from and correct your previous assertion that EXTERNAL ROTATION is involved in throwing ANY pitches doesn't surprise me..........You've said several times that E/R (external rotation) is used to throw certain pitches........Now you're saying that pronation and supination is what you mean......Thanks for the redo!
However, you are still off track TJ............And here's why.........When you reach the last 1/4 of the arm circle.......Palm to the sky.........You are ALREADY supinated to the maximum degree.........You cannot supinate ANY FURTHER from that position during RELEASE.........And INTERNAL rotation brings the ball from back to front through release..........ALWAYS.........Regardless of the amount of PRONATION that occurs through release..........
I'm going to bring here some parts of my ORIGINAL posts on I/R so you can realize that you are not teaching anyone who read the I/R posts anything........
Here's the bottom line TJ..........When the 9:00 position behind the pitcher is achieved........The forearm and wrist are ALREADY PRONATED to the maximum degree...........and it does NOT "unsupinate" then REsupinate......EVER!......It INTERNALLY rotates with either more or less pronation.........LESS pronation is used in rise and screw.......More in fastball, drop and roll over drop or drop curve..........But NEVER is there EXTERNAL ROTATION used DURING the release of the ball as you've continually asserted.......Until you changed your movement meanings.........
So no.......I've never asserted E/R in delivery because it simply isn't possible..........And no.......I've never asserted that all pitches use PRONATION coupled with INTERNAL rotation..........A flat curve under the ball remains pronated within the INTERNAL rotation phase of delivery...........A rise and screw can either stay more supinated or become more pronated depending on the delivery styles..........
Now.......When throwing CERTAIN change ups.......I/R and pronation occur very early in the downswing......Killing the velocity created by I/R and/or pronation during the delivery phase..........
This is a perfect example of early I/R; and Pronation achieving the change up mechanics:
Free Medical Dictionary defines external rotation "turning outwardly or away from the midline of the body".