Incorrect courtesy runner

[slagothar]

USSSA sanction. We batted nine, with 3 subs. sub 1 (S1) came in to pitch; in next half inning, got a base hit, used S2 for courtesy runner. Next inning, S3 comes in game for S1 (RF came in to pitch, S3 to RF). Now, in next half inning, new pitcher gets hit, and coach asks plate umpire about courtesy runner - PU says last completed at bat. We place last completed at bat on base, but opposing team objects, pointing out that we have a sub. So we remove last completed at bat, and put S2 (already was courtesy runner for pitcher position) on base as courtesy runner. Umpires rule that since we inserted last completed at bat as CR, because we had a sub, they ruled the runner out (no pitch had been thrown since base hit resulted in BR reaching base).

Sorry about the long winded explanation; hopefully it made sense......

Coach mistakenly thought that all subs had been entered into game, therefore, tried to insert last completed at bat (asked PU and he ok'd). I believe the proper remedy would be to let S2 in as CR and play ball, but would be interested in other's thoughts. I think the umpire thought our coach was trying some shenanigans to get the CR he wanted. It kinda cost us the game.....

 

[EdLovrich]

I hate to say it, but the umpire fudged this up. It is the umpire's responsibility to keep track of substitutions, CRs, DP/Flex moves, etc. and if a team tries to do something that is illegal, they simply do not allow it and warn the coach BEFORE the play becomes official (on base, at bat, in field, whatever applies) this is preventive officiating. You simply do not allow something illegal from occurring if you have the chance to prevent it. Now, if a team does not report a sub, CR, etc, then all bets are off and upon discovery you levy whatever the penalty is

In the OP, the umpire made the mistake, by not only allowing the change, but apparently telling the HC to use LCAB, and put the team in jeopardy. Should have ruled correctable error, told the opposing HC he was the one thzt made the mistake, get proper CR on base and get the game moving.

 

[Strike2]

Now, in next half inning, new pitcher gets hit, and coach asks plate umpire about courtesy runner - PU says last completed at bat. We place last completed at bat on base, but opposing team objects, pointing out that we have a sub.

Your coach goes to the umpire to get a clarification on the rules, follows the umpire's advice, and the runner gets called out because he followed the advice??? That is one fortified hill that I'm prepared to die on.

IMO, the USSSA courtesy runner rules are unnecessarily complex and vague. Rule 8-3 says "Players who have participated in the game in any other capacity are not entitled to serve as a courtesy runner". That would lead me to conclude that I could use S2, who had previously been used as a CR, but had done nothing else. However, a statement immediately follows in parenthesis... "(i.e., the courtesy runner must be an unused substitute)." To me, an "unused substitute" means someone who hasn't been in the game for any reason.

 

[CoachJD]

Your coach goes to the umpire to get a clarification on the rules, follows the umpire's advice, and the runner gets called out because he followed the advice??? That is one fortified hill that I'm prepared to die on.

Umpires make all kinds of mistakes, but in this case, it's inconceivable that an umpire could honestly tell a team what the correct procedure is and then immediately punish the team for his mistake. If I'm the team that got punished, I'd be suspicious of that behavior, and I'd consider pulling my team off the field because I'm not sure the game is being played honestly (and I've been fine playing games where the umpire was the father of the opposing pitcher and he'd just repeatedly give her strikes on pitches over batters' heads...)

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Clearly the umpire erred by advising who was eligible to run, then ruling that same player out. It should have been corrected.

That written, was a courtesy runner really necessary? I mean, maybe if it’s 110 degrees on turf, I guess, but this was a position player who came in to pitch - presumably she knows how to run the bases. Does running for her really gain you anything? I think courtesy runners are 80% unnecessary. I guess it’s a way to get bench players in the game. Mostly I think it’s a waste of time, and slows down the game more than speeds it up.

 

[slagothar]

I am in general agreement with your take on courtesy runners. In this case, it was quite hot out, and there was a benefit to letting the pitcher sit in the shaded dugout (plus, she is a slow runner....). We never courtesy run for our catcher, because she is probably the fastest on the team. CR for catcher is more justifiable, to allow time to get the gear on (especially for timed games, which is the reality).

 

[The Man In Blue]

IMO, the USSSA courtesy runner rules are unnecessarily complex and vague. Rule 8-3 says "Players who have participated in the game in any other capacity are not entitled to serve as a courtesy runner". That would lead me to conclude that I could use S2, who had previously been used as a CR, but had done nothing else. However, a statement immediately follows in parenthesis... "(i.e., the courtesy runner must be an unused substitute)." To me, an "unused substitute" means someone who hasn't been in the game for any reason.

USSSA's CR rule is not unnecessarily complex or vague ... it is unnecessarily long and convoluted though.

1.) Unused substitutes

• A CR is NOT a substitution so they are not considered to have substituted when they CR.
• The same CR can be used in multiple innings (even if other eligible CRs have not been used).

2.) ONLY IF NON-ELITE SELECT (a classification never defined in the rulebook itself) If a team has no bench players who are eligible as subs, revert to Last Completed At Bat for your courtesy runner. In determining who that is, skip:

• Anybody on base
• The pitcher
• The catcher
• Any player who already ran in THAT 1/2 inning for the other position (pitcher or catcher).

Any rule that says "you must do this ... unless you are playing in this other classification, then you must do that unless you can't, and then you can do that" is convoluted. After those two basic tenets, it goes on for another page with details, notes, and micromanaging the basic two tenets. Most of the things said in there should be put into case plays or interpretations, not the rulebook itself.

 

[The Man In Blue]

It is the umpire's responsibility to keep track of substitutions, CRs, DP/Flex moves, etc. and if a team tries to do something that is illegal, they simply do not allow it and warn the coach BEFORE the play becomes official (on base, at bat, in field, whatever applies) this is preventive officiating. You simply do not allow something illegal from occurring if you have the chance to prevent it. Now, if a team does not report a sub, CR, etc, then all bets are off and upon discovery you levy whatever the penalty is

In the OP, the umpire made the mistake, by not only allowing the change, but apparently telling the HC to use LCAB, and put the team in jeopardy. Should have ruled correctable error, told the opposing HC he was the one thzt made the mistake, get proper CR on base and get the game moving.

I will absolutely agree the umpire has some fault here, but I disagree with the assessment that it is the umpire's responsibility to manage the team. It is the coach's job to manage the team and know the rules.

Soapbox detour: I do not like tournaments that do not require teams to provide the umpire a line-up or make vague blanket statements like "free substitutions". I make it clear at my plate meetings: I will NOT rule on or enforce anything having to do with substitutions since I have nothing to do so with.

In USSSA, Rule 14.12 provides for the following related to the umpire's duties with the line-up ...

14.12(J) Announce each substitute.

14.12(P) Keep a record of substitutions, courtesy runners, defensive team charged conferences, ejections/restrictions and team warnings for each team.

It is not our responsibility to manage the team within the rules for the coach. That said, I do agree with you that we should practice preventative officiation (though there is no requirement to do so). If we see something when the coach tries to report a substitute or CR, we should put the brakes on and try to rectify it before it becomes a problem.

This situation may be a little different. What did the coach ask? Did the coach say "I used my subs, who can courtesy run?" If that is how it was asked, then I don't feel the umpire is at fault. He probably should have double-checked his line-up card, but if the coach presented it as "I have used all my subs" then I don't believe the umpire has any blame.

If the coach simply asked "Who do I have eligible to courtesy run?" then I believe the umpire erred and needs to rectify that. Rule 14.12 also provides us with proper direction here ...

14.12(R) Rectify any situation in which an Umpire’s decision that was delayed or reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

While this is specifically written for making calls during a play, I believe we can derive from this that, within the spirit of the game, the umpire has not only the authority, but the duty to rectify any situation where the umpire puts a team in jeopardy. The umpire put the team in jeopardy.

The out call for an ineligible or incorrect courtesy runner would have been correct by rule if the coach had done it. However, if the umpire was complicit in that happening, 14.12(R) should have taken precedent.

 

[canyonjoe]

I don't like to borrow from baseball, but it's time to get rid of the courtesy runners. If you want your pitcher to hit she has to run the bases if not DH for her. I know the argument about getting catchers ready with 2 outs but we let them hit with 2 outs so they can run with 2 outs.

 

[The Man In Blue]

That written, was a courtesy runner really necessary? I mean, maybe if it’s 110 degrees on turf, I guess, but this was a position player who came in to pitch - presumably she knows how to run the bases. Does running for her really gain you anything? I think courtesy runners are 80% unnecessary. I guess it’s a way to get bench players in the game. Mostly I think it’s a waste of time, and slows down the game more than speeds it up.

ABSOLUTELY THIS ... though I think 80% is way too generous. I would say 95%.

Courtesy runners are intended to do two things:

1.) Give bench players a chance to get into the game
2.) Provide the pitcher and catcher time to get ready to go on defense, thus speeding up the game.

Courtesy runners are not intended to allow the pitcher or catcher to rest because it is hot (it is hot for all of us) OR to give the offense an advantage by allowing a free substitution of a fast runner for a slow runner.

As it is, all they do is cause unnecessary delays and confusion. There is NO reason to not know who your CR is in advance. You know the pitcher/catcher is coming up to bat. You should know who is going in. By acting surprised when the P/C comes up and then running through your players like Dr. Strange looking for ways to beat Thanos, you only show that you are trying to milk it for an advantage (and incompetently so).

If I could write the CR rule ...

• CRs would be pre-identified on the line-up card, just like DP/Flex. You can have one for your pitcher and one for your catcher, so this is easy.
• CR must be ready when the pitcher/catcher reaches base and must IMMEDIATELY enter (at the end of the play, of course).
• A CR may still enter as a sub, but then you lose the CR spot (like DP/Flex).
• Failure to meet these requirements means you lose the privilege of using the courtesy runner the rest of the game.

We aren't going through machinations figuring out who it is, we aren't calling time three pitches in to watch while the CR searches for a helmet in the dugout (or comes back from getting nachos). I'd contemplate saying you 1 or 2 outs to use the CR, but then that adds in an opportunity to slow the game down again.