How to fix elbows leading the hands at connection?

[Hitter]

Howard,

Thats' probably a better way to phrase it. One of my biggest pet peeves is poor throwing mechanics so I've alwyas stressed, to my daughter especially, to not throw like a "girl". I have to admit I like your terminology ALOT better. I'm going to start using that instead of my old standby. The one thing we have always pointed out to our girls is there is a direct correlation from one skill to another one in softball. I just can't believe I didn't catch this bat drag sooner.

crankermo another drill if you want to call it a drill is to take a bat handle and cut it off about 14 to 15 inches above the knob and then deburr or sand down the rough edges where you cut the bat and then drill a hole in the knob of the bat and tie a knot in the rope. I like using the bigger rope at Home Depot or Lowes. Now have her get ready to hit and think slow to load and soft to step on the inside edge of her lead foot and make sure the lead foot knee is flexed or bent slightly. You are holding the rope about where the catcher sets up. Make sure she has separated her hands rearward a little much like gathering momentum to throw. Explain because both hands are on the bat that the bat will not go as far back as the ball would however it is important she has that feeling of building momentum. Top of the hands are about the top of the shoulders and she starts booth elbows at the same time. We like to think in terms of the lead elbow making a good first move of about 2 to 4 inches as the back elbow is lowering and the tilt and turn begin. Look to see where her hands go as to direction. It helps to have a ball on a tee so she knows her hands are going inside the path of the ball in order to get the sweet spot on the bat to release to the ball. The focus right now is bat lag and elbow positioning and it is OK to stage her and set her up so she feels what it is she is supposed to be doing. You should see her turn her shoulders a little more and the bat handle with the rope be trailing and the knob of the bat is leading the elbows and the rope will be somewhat parallel to the ground. Elbow above the hands, hands below the elbow and bat head below the hands at a slight angle. The elbows should be working as a team. Look for the back elbow to be lowering and at connection where the back elbow is passing the front shoulder the elbow will be down and the hand is directly over the elbow or what we term staying strong on the back side. With the girls make sure they clear their chest with the elbows and do not get in so close as they will and you will feel a loss of pulling power. Try it with the elbow in close and a little further away to feel the difference. Then after that do the matrix drill. Learn the motion before you focus on quickness as that is more important especially when first learning what you want it to feel like. I like to think bat control before I work on bat speed.

Thanks Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

cranker-

if everyone on your team throws well in the high level overhand pattern, that would be exceptional.

 

[Wellphyt]

Our travel team has just bought the RVP hitting analysis program and the biggest team wide flaw we noticed is at connection the back elbow is flying away from the body and leading the hands through the zone. This is causing loss of control of the bathead and loss of the whip. We started using the rock skipping drill to show our girls where w want them to get to. Are there any other drills or tips out there that will help fix this?


Thank You.

The way to fix bat drag (the back elbow leading the hands through the zone) is by correctly lowering the back elbow. There are two ways to lower the back elbow. One way leads to a push and bat drag, and the other leads to a whip and the hands staying connected to the rear shoulder without thinking about it. Mankin was 100% correct when he said;

"I would say that about 95% of the batter's problems in generating power and bat speed stem from how they initiate the swing. The defining difference between those that have real pop in their bat and those that don't is determined from how much rearward bat speed they develop from the launch to the lag position."

My 13 yo dd had a bad push and some bat drag. A couple of months ago I finally figured out how the pros get the bat started/lower the rear elbow. The difference is night and day. Getting the bat started correctly solves most problems down stream. Bat drag solved, connection solved, hips leading the hands solved, and front elbow leading solved. Yes, some movements may need to be tightened up and refined, especially when you're dealing with 13 yo girls, but it's no big deal.

The best way to appreciate what the pros do is to duplicate it for yourself. Once you do, you'll understand why Mankin places so much importance on it. You'll also likely discover that many of the drills that many of us rely on to teach the swing are no longer necessary.

For the first time ever, I'm actually happy with my daughter's swing.

 

[Tewks]

Here's a much better clip of Pedroia hitting one off the left field fence...

...that paints a very different picture.

P.S. Pedroia's swing is a bit unusual, and not really the best benchmark for anything.

Are you confusing Pedroia's swing style with his swing mechanics? Using him as a benchmark is fine if you are looking at "go" to contact.

 

[Tewks]

Bat drag is an issue if the arms and/or shoulders are supplying the power to the swing. The power of the swing should feel effortless, easy or free. Not forced. It certainly doesn't feel effortless or easy when the arms/shoulders are pulling. Here's a quick exercise to stress this point. Stand up and shift all your weight to the front side.... now try to drive your rear hip. Anything? Where can you get power from now? If you swing from here at max effort, does it feel effortless?

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Are you confusing Pedroia's swing style with his swing mechanics? Using him as a benchmark is fine if you are looking at "go" to contact.

No.

The issue is that Pedroia doesn't do what Jack says he does.

 

[Tewks]

No.

The issue is that Pedroia doesn't do what Jack says he does.

Are you referencing the THT 2 video? In your opinion, what is Pedroia doing?

I usually watch Jack's videos twice... the first time with the volume off to make my own conclusions (which is often hard because he controls the videos and rarely shows the full swing) and then with volume on to see if we match up.

 

[Wellphyt]

No.

The issue is that Pedroia doesn't do what Jack says he does.

Actually he does. But, we already had a similar debate regarding Joe Mauer on antoher hitting forum and you couldn't see him doing it either. I don't fault you because I couldn't see the hand pivot intitially either. If you are truly interested in expanding your knowledge base, duplicate the correct movement from a higher handset position similar to Pujols. Once you get really good at it from that handset position, experimemt from different handset positions. At which point you will discover that the feel is the same. Which is why some of us keep recommending people swing a bat more.

A hitter's handset and bat position in their stance can mask critical movements.

One reason why so many coaches and instructors can't see a "push" in a swing is because it is partly being covered up by shoulder rotation. Same thing with how pro hitters get their bat started. For instance, if I put my bat on my deltoid (Epstein dvd training position), you will not be able to see the hand pivot point because the hands are already flat (at the palm up/palm down position). The more vertical the bat, the easier it is to see the hand pivot point.

 

[bosoxfan]

In that Pedroia clip is it an optical illusion or is his bat flexing from whip?

 

[Tewks]

For instance, if I put my bat on my deltoid (Epstein dvd training position), you will not be able to see the hand pivot point because the hands are already flat (at the palm up/palm down position). The more vertical the bat, the easier it is to see the hand pivot point.

Bingo. The hand pivot point can be summarized by just getting to palm up/palm down early without and push/pull from the shoulders or arms. If you vary tipped position or vary the initial handset, you can vary the amount of time the barrel is on plane building bat speed.