Help with hip rotation and leaning......

[Amy in AZ.]

IR is a term used exclusively on this site. It is OK, not to know what that is. Your DD has a common problem that I used to address, later on in lessons. Now, I teach staying tall, in lesson #1. It is easier to correct before she pitches that way.

I second the thought that power K's are the thing to do and throwing correctly overhand. I tell them that if you have a rubber band you want to pull it back to make it travel past. She is that rubber band. Pull those shoulders back.

I have a mom that put her DD on a 2X8 board, flat on the ground. She had her stride towards the end and not fall off. I don't do that , but it worked for this girl. Also, use video and pics to help your daughter. You can do that while you are working with her. See if you can download Coach's Eye. You can video her and then, scroll through it and show her where she is leaning forward.

 

[GatorGirl]

I have coaches eye. Thanks guys, but I think I am more confused than ever now.

 

[Rocketech1]

Two separate issues here: Leaning & Arm Whip

Leaning - have her pretend that there is a cliff in front of her stride plant foot and she needs to keep her weight back so she doesn't go over the cliff "nose behind the toes". She should be resisting against this firm front side.

Arm whip (internal rotation) - make sure she does two drills: "show it & throw it". With palm facing catcher at 12:00 and at 9:00 (behind her) the palm is "facing the sky". The release should be natural and not forced. The rotation of the shoulder, upper arm, forearm, and hand is what generate the spin and speed of the pitch, not the wrist snaps that your PC seems to be focused on right now.

The other drill "45 degrees". Have her stand 45 degrees to home plate and only focus on the arm circle and generating maximum arm whip and 12-6 spin on the ball. If she does these drills with you every practice, she will get much better as long as her hand / arm position are correct. It's impossible NOT to be using IR doing these drills. Watch the super slo-mo of Amanda Scarborough from the Powerdrive website. See her body positions throughout the leap and drag and arm circle. IMO, this is about as good as it gets. Notice how right before release the elbow is "planted" at the hip and the arm rotates around this point. Key to good arm whip and IR. She is PULLING the ball down the arm circle and rotating the arm.

Be prepared that your PC will not understand the arm whip and will likely think that you do not know what you are talking about. That's ok. If you can show her video of the best college and pro pitchers in the world and where their arm and hand positions are during the arm circle, maybe she will listen?

This pitching thing is a lot of work. Most kids will be average and not take it too seriously. That's ok. They can still have some success and fun being a pitcher. Then you have the more serious player who wants to maximize their potential and learn the best possible mechanics to continue to get better each year. You and your DD have to ask yourselves what type of pitcher she wants to be? Either is fine and there is a place in fastpitch for both kinds.

Do you have a pitching area at your house? and does she practice at least 3x a week?

 

[LeftiesDad]

GatorGirl,

I am sorry if I contributed to your confusion, that is never my intention. You will experience a lot of that as you educate yourself. You will find lots of "experts" that really don't think about what they teach or even what they themselves actually do. I have even seen an instructor teaching kids away from a nice throwing motion to a lean over and pull up hard, was very sad.

The single most important things to remember:
A) remember your DD is 9, laying the proper foundation now will save her lots of frustration in the future. ( don't look for a quick fix. There is no silver bullet, this is a marathon, not a sprint. It is about the process not the results. insert favorite platitude here)
B) your DD does this because she loves it and really wants to do it, pitching is a second sport to carry with softball and there is a lot of long boring practices in her future.
C) Have fun

 

[GatorGirl]

Thanks to all!

Rocket, I looked high and low for those two drills and can't find anything visual. So if you know of any, it would be appreciated. We practice 3-4 times per week including 1 pitching lesson and yes we can pitch in our basement and have a net in the garage.

 

[SUPERFIN]

Two separate issues here: Leaning & Arm Whip

Leaning - have her pretend that there is a cliff in front of her stride plant foot and she needs to keep her weight back so she doesn't go over the cliff "nose behind the toes". She should be resisting against this firm front side.

Arm whip (internal rotation) - make sure she does two drills: "show it & throw it". With palm facing catcher at 12:00 and at 9:00 (behind her) the palm is "facing the sky". The release should be natural and not forced. The rotation of the shoulder, upper arm, forearm, and hand is what generate the spin and speed of the pitch, not the wrist snaps that your PC seems to be focused on right now.

The other drill "45 degrees". Have her stand 45 degrees to home plate and only focus on the arm circle and generating maximum arm whip and 12-6 spin on the ball. If she does these drills with you every practice, she will get much better as long as her hand / arm position are correct. It's impossible NOT to be using IR doing these drills. Watch the super slo-mo of Amanda Scarborough from the Powerdrive website. See her body positions throughout the leap and drag and arm circle. IMO, this is about as good as it gets. Notice how right before release the elbow is "planted" at the hip and the arm rotates around this point. Key to good arm whip and IR. She is PULLING the ball down the arm circle and rotating the arm.

Be prepared that your PC will not understand the arm whip and will likely think that you do not know what you are talking about. That's ok. If you can show her video of the best college and pro pitchers in the world and where their arm and hand positions are during the arm circle, maybe she will listen?

This pitching thing is a lot of work. Most kids will be average and not take it too seriously. That's ok. They can still have some success and fun being a pitcher. Then you have the more serious player who wants to maximize their potential and learn the best possible mechanics to continue to get better each year. You and your DD have to ask yourselves what type of pitcher she wants to be? Either is fine and there is a place in fastpitch for both kinds.

Do you have a pitching area at your house? and does she practice at least 3x a week?

Can you post a vid of these 2 drills? Thanks!

 

[Adman]

Rocket, I looked high and low for those two drills and can't find anything visual. So if you know of any, it would be appreciated.

Show it and throw it:

From http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/10321-i-r-classroom-2.html#post116906

 

[BoardMember]

IR is a term used exclusively on this site.

Amy...........While this may have been true back in 09 when I began writing about I/R............It is no longer true today..........

The word is spreading.........And spreading fast...........

I have college coaches, instructors, and PC's who are contacting me about I/R because they recognize it's the most misunderstood mechanics of fastpitch delivery.........And they want to know more..........

There are people making videos of I/R and creating drills, outside of mine, to create proper I/R..........

The world of fastpitch, and fastpitch instructors/coaches is VAST.......It will take some time to spread.........Probably a long time. But believe me......There are some very prominant people who now understand, and are continuing to understand the mechanics of internal rotation...........

They are beginning to teach it........Write about it........Make video's about it..........And so on............

I/R is NOT exclusive to THIS SITE any longer..........And for VERY GOOD reason...........

 

[GatorGirl]

That being said BM, I have poured over your videos and others on the same topic and want to just tell our PC that this is the way we want to go. I haven't seen her pitch so maybe she pitches this way, but it just teaching the way she was taught.

We are so young in our pitching(only 3 months in) that I want to do this now instead of 3 years in, but I don't want her PC to fire us because she doesn't want to teach the method. PC are not easy to find in these parts. So I will be sending her this message via email to feel her out. Please let me know your thoughts.

"I came across this method when I was looking for a way to assist DD with the leaning issue that we discussed in practice. Initially I brushed it off, but it just kept coming up. Plus I have seen DD do this a bit naturally and I just kept correcting her.
It is called Internal Rotation in some areas, forearm fire in others, it is the method that Bill Hillhouse teaches and as you can see from the videos, it seems to be what a great deal of the older pitchers have now transitioned to. I was very nervous about bringing it up because well you are the coach and I am just the mom. But many people have encouraged me by saying that maybe you pitch this way, but teach it slightly different, maybe the way you were taught.
So, I would ask you to look at the videos with an open mind and please know that I am not trying to dictate things, but just trying to give DD the best opportunity to be able to pitch and see a small bit of reward for all the hard work she has put in.

This is a very slow motion of Amanda Scarborough, you can really see how her forearm rotates.
Softball Power Drive - mechanics in slow motion 1000 frame per second - YouTube

This one really breaks down the difference between traditional wrist/elbow snap and internal rotation.
He calls it forearm fire.
Windmill Pitching Mechanics: Forearm Fire - YouTube

In this thread, you will see how this method is broken down into drills.
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/10321-i-r-classroom.html

 

[corlay]

This one really breaks down the difference between traditional wrist/elbow snap and internal rotation.
He calls it forearm fire.
Windmill Pitching Mechanics: Forearm Fire - YouTube

This one butchers the concept of I/R somewhat, especially the comment about shoulder joint being "useless" after 12:00 position, but I suppose its better than nothing...

Will be interesting to see how the various PC's take in these concepts, and then "re-brand" them to make themselves unique.