GoPro is very revealing . . .

[jasonacer]

GoPro is very revealing . . .(VIDEO ADDED)

Ok, just got the go pro and WOW did it open my eyes. Now I've got a laundry list of issue to work on . . .

1.) Leaping - she actually gets airborne during the pitch.
2.) Late release - ball comes out of her hand in front of her front knee.
3.) Not stopping after pitch - her momentum carries her forward another step or two
4.) Glove swimming - she externally rotates it after she gets to 3 o'clock
5.) No arm bend from 12:00 to release (actually some, but VERY little)
6.) Arm at 12:00 at toe touch
7.) Weight forward at release - nose is over bellybutton but those are at least behind planting foot


No wonder she has accuracy issues! She's got solid speed for a 9 y/o. Haven't gunned her but compared to others her age that I have seen over the last couple of years, she's not a flamethrower, but solid. She has a great attitude, is easy to work with, and loves to please. Always ready to practice with dad.

Her older sister has many of the same problems, so I'm blaming Coach Dad. *hangs head in shame* They both have a PC, but I work with them 3+ times a week at home. Don't want to go against the PC, but I do want to enhance their pitching.

I am sure we can't fix all of this at once but gotta get to work on the issues one at a time. I would really appreciate suggestions on which is most important to fix first and drills that we can work on to improve her mechanics.

I'd rather not post her video's online and to be honest they are massive size so I doubt that I could. I cut one down to about half and it was still over 33 mb. Then I created a gif and it's down to about 14mb so I could cut it down some more and possibly email/message it to you if needed.

Thanks very much for any help.

 

[WillyT812]

When you load your videos onto YouTube they'll be automatically cut down in size, so post away.

I think most of the regulars on this forum will tell you, learn to throw underhand before you progress to pitching from 9:00. Boardmember's sticky, IR in the Classroom lays out the progression pretty well.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

And don't forget my mantra. Learn to throw overhand, first.

Was she inside when you videoed her? That would account for the leaping. Please don't throw that list at her, all at once. Work on the IR and then, add a stork drill once in awhile. Praise her and do not discourage her.

 

[James Smith]

Your DD is a bowler, I know because I have one too.

Like Willy mentioned post a video up to youtube and post the link here, smarter people then me will get her going on the right track.

I does sound like you might want to look into a new pitching coach and/or get a couple DVDs and try to do it on your own for a little bit and see how that goes for you.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Jason-

First of all, you are doing the right thing by actually getting video and reviewing it to get an objective look. I think you will find that of the things you mentioned there are probably only two core issues, arm circle and drive mechanics . Since this is all a big chain, you will find that when she fixes one thing, other things improve. Especially with the drive and arm circle timing. For instance, when you fix the leap (getting airborne) a lot of the landing problems will improve because she will be in a better position to control her body and weight shift. The point is that it is more forest than trees.

Second is a question, how long has she been working with her PC? If it is longer than a couple of months and he/she has not been mentioning some of these issues and working on them, then change coaches to one that is more effective or stop coaches all together and just work with her on your own for a bit. Especially if she is bowling, if she is bowling and the PC has not been working really hard at fixing it then they are not doing their job and do not know what they are doing.

As for video, I understand the concern, the web is a crazy place, but my experience is that it is highly unlikely that there is any risk in posting videos of kids pitching. If you are uncomfortable with it, try KINOVEA software (free, just google it), it will allow you to draw a circle over her face and other wise alter a video so that anything you don't want shown is removed. Without video it will be really hard to take advantage of some of the experts on this site and there is also a certain communal aspect that I really enjoy in having a group of similar parents working with their young daughters, we all kind of encourage each other and enjoy the successes (and bitch about the frustrations) together.

In any case, you are in the right place for working with your daughters and helping them become better pitchers.

Advice-
learn how to play underhand catch yourself using the correct I/R mechanics, then just play with them until they get the basic concept, then start them on a steady diet of the I/R classroom drills. Once the basic arm circle motion is looking stable, start at square 1 with the drive mechanics, use the DRIVE MECHANICS thread that Javasource is creating as a guide. Keep the feedback to the most important points (this is where you will need to be as much, if not more, of a student of pitching as your daughters). You will need to boil down things to the most critical aspects and work on one thing at a time. You definitely don't want to be asking for two or three corrections at a time, you will need to always be chasing the biggest issue. Then with time, the biggest issue will simply get less and less important. For instance, if she is bowling right now, then getting her arm bent and correctly whipping is the biggest issue, ignore everything else for a minute and just focus on that.

Good luck and happy pitching.

 

[JAD]

They both have a PC, but I work with them 3+ times a week at home. Don't want to go against the PC, but I do want to enhance their pitching.

I would highly recommend reviewing the video with your DD's pitching coach so you can work TOGETHER to resolve the issues.

 

[jasonacer]

GoPro is very revealing . . . . (vid added)

Awesome responses, thank you.

WillyT - I have read BM's I/R in the classroom many, many times. I am a complete believer in the I/R technique. It would be wise to go back and review again, though.

Amy - She wasn't inside, we were outside. I'm the crazy dad who built a pitcher's circle for them to pitch from - BTW, had NO idea how much a full cubic yard of clay is. And yes, throwing overhand is always always always a focus. Long toss, burn outs, playing catch, warm ups, absolutely agree about throwing overhand. And I agree . . . throwing a list at them like that would be detrimental. We acknowledged some issues to work on, told her there might be some different drills, focused on the positive, lots of giggling and jokes, and made it something that dad and her will work on together.

James - I think you hit the nail on the head! Bowler! Both my DD's used to bowl in a league a few years ago. Their movements totally mimic their bowling moves. Great light bulb moment for me. Regarding her coach, I like him, they seem to listen to him and like him as well, he's close to the house, reasonable rates . . . but it is something to consider. One has been going to him for over a year. There has been definite improvement, though, since starting with him so I am reluctant to move on. It is a thought though . . .

JJ - Great post, great questions. That is very encouraging to hear that it may be a couple of bigger issues vs a ton of several smaller ones. I am reading the drive mechanics posts currently. We have tried the wall marching drill, just to get a feel for it. Both of them lack flexibility in their achilles area and want to stick their butts out, a la bowler stance. Thinking this shows just how much we need to focus on it. We're starting next practice with a focus on the whip. BM's drills. And as Amy mentioned, throwing in an occasional stork drill. Nothing too intrusive, nice and slow. Focus will still be on having fun, brilliant basics, and doing things the right way. Core strengthening helps everything, so I plan on having them do some (very few to start) core strengthening. I'll do it with them, we'll make a game of it.
Showing the video to the PC idea from JAD to look at them together is a pretty good idea. The benefit from having a PC at this point is they see him as an expert that they go to only once a week (vs dad they see every day). I think if he and I can get together on some key points, we'll have a more team focus on helping them out. And as I mentioned, he has definitely done some strong work with the girls.

I think we're close and these aren't MASSIVE fixes. And it encourages me that they have decent speed in spite of their issues.

And discussed it with the wife . . . here's the vid of my DD doing her thing.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Jason- is this her full motion or a drill? It looks like she is shortening her stride to keep her circle timing in sync with her lower half. But this is causing her to not get her weight into a controllable position. In order to firm up the front, her center of gravity has to be sufficiently behind her landing foot and she has to have the strength in the leg and core to stop the forward momentum. Giving her some back swing might give her body more time to get into that position. I'll post more later when I get in front of a computer. This phone is killing my thumbs.

scratch the above Jason, her stride length looks pretty good, it is right about at her height. The posture at finish is a result of her using her body and forward momentum as a power generator for the bowling aspect of her circle. Her arm is stiff, but she does actually have some I/R in it, but she does not use a stabilized front side and brush interference to power the pitch, she uses the forward momentum of her body and her shoulder as the power source. My older DD has a similar stiff arm-I/R action, but uses a stabilized upper arm and brush interference as her power source. I'll post a couple of gifs to illustrate.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Jason-

here is a gif of your DD with a trace of her shoulder path through release. Notice how the upper arm never stops to allow the angular momentum to transfer to the lower arm. Also notice how the shoulder line is constantly moving forward (along with the body). She is using her body and shoulder to get power into the pitch.

Now look at Ueno, her shoulder and body are very set and all of the power is whipped into the pitch. She is still using her body for power, but once the momentum has transferred up tot he arm, the rest becomes a rigid body to resist against, this ensures that every bit of power gets transferred into the arm and nothing bleeds back into the body.

So I think that her arm circle problem is causing the weight shift issue. She actually looks really strong and athletic so she might get this pretty quickly, but if you can get her to feel the whip in a more static position with her shoulder and weight more stabilized, she should be able to feel the best way to get more power into her hand using whip instead of body lean and linear shoulder motion.

in short, stop the bowling, get her I/R whipping and see how much of the body lean stuff goes bye bye n its own.

I am really interested to hear other's opinions because this could be a real chicken and egg scenario and I could be totally off base.

 

[LeftiesDad]

Using the same images above, notice how Ueno's hips stop travelling forward. She has provided a firm front side from which to pitch against. Notice also how her drive leg has tension in her upper thigh providing connection to her core, you can see her core pulling her leg forward. Leaving her leg behind is causing your DD to lean at the end, it is the only way to find balance. Fixing the front side and core usage will help her posture and help with a lot of other downstream issues.

Be sure to read the Drive Mechanics thread.

and the creating correct core torque thread is also very good.

Mastering these with set your DD up in a much better posture and allow everything else to flow through well.