For the pitching coaches: setting some guidelines for innings pitched during week

[SamG]

My only comment is if you want to limit pitches, then limit PITCHES. Last year my DD couldn't find the strike zone. It took a LOT of pitches to get through an inning. This year (only 3 games so far), she's gotten 2/3 outs from K's. I haven't tracked her exact counts, but I'm guessing what she's throwing in 5 innings this year matches two (maybe three) innings last year. Since she's more efficient this year, she shouldn't pitch as much?

Set a limit (say average 7 batters an inning, 5 pitches to each batter gives you 35 pitches/inning. Multiply by number of innings (we do 5 here) and you've got 175) on the number of pitches. So maybe you say '400 pitches a day, 1K a week'. That's basically 5 games over the week, w/two on Saturday and two on Sunday.

I pulled these numbers out of my a--, feel free to change them.

 

[chinamigarden]

35 pitches an inning? That's awfully high. My DD averaged 18 pitches an inning over the 100 innings that she pitched. One of her goals for this season is to lower that number. Should be 15 or less.

I get what you are saying, but you should be taking a long look at whats happening if your girl is throwing that many pitches in an average inning.

 

[SamG]

China-

I never said that's how many my DD pitched. In fact, a) I said I don't keep pitch counts and b) I made up the numbers. I'm also not talking about an "ideal" number of pitches. We're talking about setting limits on pitchers. I don't think you can take an 'ideal' (9?) number, simply double that and say that's all the pitches you should throw in an inning.

I was simply saying someone who is 'efficient' in pitching will get more innings with less pitches than someone who is inefficient. So I don't think it's fair to say someone should only pitch '25' INNINGS a week. An efficient pitcher will pitch a lot less than the inefficient one. Does that mean the possibility of injury is more with an efficient pitcher?

Also, "should be 15 or less"? You do realize there is a team behind the pitcher, right? They need to make plays too. If they don't make the plays, the pitcher needs to pitch more.

 

[TheRogue]

DD's 14U travel ball team has 3 pitchers counting her. Just found out that one of them probably is not going to be at our 6 game round robin this weekend, so we're down to two. probably go three innings each and just keep rotating. at least the weather is going to be decent, not cold and wet but not hot either. If the two girls get through this weekend successfully we'll have to give them Monday off :-}

 

[rowdy]

I don't have a specific number but I would say that the mistake a lot of parents make is letting their daughters throw every day. The body needs time to rest and the muscle need time to repair themselves and grow. Most kids in college will never come close to the innings in a weekend they did in travel ball so I don't think college is the problem.

Take the focus off winning and put it on development of your athletes. Make sure you have several players who can pitch just in case you have an injury and need someone to step in. The season really isn't important other than preperation for the summer nationals and as a coach discipline yourself not to get impatient and lose sight of the long term team goals.

 

[bobbyb]

May not qualify as a pitching coach here...but i found this thread interesting.

We don't have a pitch count or inning count. We can tell when she gets tired... because she can't get her arm synch right with her lower body. She thinks its still good...and she can pitch ok but not optimum... we can see it and tell she is getting tired. The legs get tired..rather than the arm.

The most my dd has pitched in one day is 2.5 games...none were full 7 innings.

Practice is like this...approximately 250 arm rotations equal hard day....200 equals light day. We can do one hard then one light.... or vice verse... then there MUST be a rest day. Two hard days...followed by two rest days.

We have a rest day before game days/weekends.

If we pitch two games per day on weekend...we rest the next two days. If we pitch 3 or less games on a weekend we rest one day.

It always changes our workout days for practice.... but i feel appropriate rest is a biggy.

 

[Ken Krause]

Couldn't find the actual study in a quick search, but here's a link to an article about a study on the windmill pitching motion and its effect on the arm. Analysis Of Windmill Pitching Shows Risk Of Injury To Biceps In Softball Players

The study was performed by D. Nikhil Verma, MD, a sports medicine specialist. I think this qualifies as empirical evidence.

I sent one of my students to him after she developed arm/shoulder pain while pitching (and hitting). He diagnosed it as over-use. Gave her a cortisone shot for the inflammation and said to stay off it for a month. She's pitching this spring pain-free.

 

[Coach Stan]

I was 16 years old when I started pitching in men's fastpitch. Most teams I played on had 1 or 2 other pitchers. I normally pitched about 30 to 40 games a season. From 16 to 18 years old I lived in a cold weather state and would start practice right after our last games which were normally at ISC worlds. You see in 1969 there were a lot more men's team that played and were trying to qualify for worlds or nationals. I did not understand the need for time off my first couple of years. But as my body matured I found it needed more time to heal. Were I think a lot of people loose the idea of time off is the problem with not understanding that yes the windmill is easier on the body but the body will fatigue after over use or no time off. Then as the body fatigues then a pitcher starts to use wrong mechanics to get the same result when they felt refreshed. Then the body start to break down and injuries start to happen.

So I do not know if pitch count is the right way to go. But I do talk with my parents about giving their daughter's time off and do not let the coaches on their rec, allstar, travel team have them pitch every game. Now here is the problem getting parents to understand that their daughter may not feel the fatigue now, but as they get older and longer into pitching their body will eventually start to break down. Some parents look at me like I am crazy when I suggest time off or not pitching every game. It is all about winning and they are very lax in giving their daughters time off. I have had to tell some parents not to bring in their daughter for a month of no pitching.

At UCSD I was the pitching coach and we did a lot of strength training specially core development because we found even though many pitchers coming in pitched a lot of innings they truly did not have the strength to finish a 3rd of a season with out fatigue injury. So I am in the process of having all my students work on thier core no matter their age and I suggest that the parents institute that same core development at home.

 

[knightsb]

Last night after our game, I was talking to the sister of our #2 pitcher who pitches for a 14U TB team. I asked how she was doing, she commented she was having shoulder problems. She mentioned she couldn't lift her arm above her head. I spoke to her mother about her shoulder injury and their plans for an MRI later today.

Two things occurred to me after finding out about her injury; 1) My DD used to go to the same PC as her. That PC taught the step-closed-hips-style delivery, 2) I heard via the younger sister she was pitching quite a bit.

During the conversation with her mother, I asked how many games she would pitch in a weekend tournament. She replied that on occasion, she has pitched every game, as many as 7 in one 3 day stretch. The mother indicated at her last tournament, when the shoulder pain started, she had pitched 140 pitches (not counting all foul balls) This thread immediately came to mind.

For the parents of DDs who pitch on TB teams, do you have pitching limits you discuss and agree to with the TB coaches? If so, what are the limits you have set and how is that communicated with the TB coach?

 

[Amy in AZ.]

No, I didn't and my DD pitched some summers, 2 junior high seasons and a JV season, entirely on her own. By her junior year she had developed a muscle impingement and the surgeon said absolutely no more pitching. She is now 22 and I am happy to see some coaches getting smarter about their pitchers.

I think that 2 five inning games a day, would be enough for a well coached and experienced 14 yo. I do count my student's pitches, when I get a chance to watch. They are 12 and have been pitching for 3 years. They tire around 100 pitches, per game. But, no one ever asks me how long they can pitch.

I hope that the young lady you mentioned just needs a rest, but I have had her symptoms myself and it required 6 weeks of rehab. (I should state that I was 47, not 14.)