Find a Current or Recent College/Elite US Pitcher WITH Fastball

[Alan Snedeker]

Keilani Ricketts is mine and DD favorite pitcher. From watching her pitch it looks like she primarily throws fastball and change up.

 

[lhowser]

A better thread just might be "Find a Current or Recent College/Elite US Pitcher WITHOUT an Off Speed Pitch". A lot of pitches get in there pretty straight regardless of what they are called when thrown hard (curve, screw, rise, FB) and depend on location. It's the off-speed stuff that keeps the hitters off balance and cannot be absent.

 

[Steve Huff]

I never said I was against a moving fastball.

Semantics!

 

[Steve Huff]

Everytime I talk to a fellow pitching coach and they tell me they just don't work on fastball because it's "rarely thrown" I giggle.........Then I asked them to show me how they teach it........And get their students to throw a few.........And it becomes glaringly obvious why they don't work on it..........

I've had a least 4 of my pitchers quit travel teams because they have "team pc's" who call pitches........They inevetably "over pitch" in most situations........Bury pitchers deep in the count.........Raise pitch counts by 30% or more........And increase walks and opposing averages sometimes 2 fold...........

Boardmember, this was the case in the World Cup in Oklahoma City last summer when I asked the Czech coach why his pitchers were always "pitching in reverse". He asked what I meant, and I told him his pitchers have been trained to throw rise-balls out of the zone, and every batter has a 2-0 count on them, and then he started calling fast-balls. Now I will say this. His primary pitchers threw about 58mph. At that level I don't think they throw hard enough to start off every batter with fastballs. But I doubt the BA against would have gone up if they had relied more on fastballs or starting some batters, in particular with the heart of the order, with some change-ups. But there is one certainty! Their walks would have gone down; instead of 5 walks a game they might have given up 2 walks a game. A secondary issue is that it was 105-108 degrees every day. So why not try to keep your pitcher out there as long as possible and work on her tan?

One more point! It was peculiar to me that most programs in Europe have few pitchers who throw a drop ball. It seems that 80% of the pitching focus is on throwing a rise. If I am facing Dallas Escobedo, my hitters are standing in the back of the box, and not swinging at anything from the rib-cage up until she proves to me she can throw strikes. And yes, this can be practiced at any level.

 

[Steve Huff]

I never said I was against a moving fastball. They don't teach them that way or they teach them out of it at young ages. I don't start with many brand new pitchers so they come to me like that. PItching the C grip because it is supposed to be straight. I don't care whether it is straight or not. I go with what the natural tendency is. Or the grip the player likes. She can change it later as she likes.

The books disagree with you (3 so far) on this 4 seam moving or not, they say not.

The fastball has back spin?
I am confused.

When I read the NCFA results, very few pitchers threw a fastball. They used to throw more around early 2000s and it has gone away. Whatever the difference is, 1-3 mph can be the variance just on one pitch, ie, the fastball. I saw many rises, curves and screws that were the same mph or higher than the fastball. So they choose not to throw the fastball. Why don't you ask a college coach about this instead of getting on me about it. I threw mostly fastballs in my day, so not my issue.

However, my students need to be ready for showcases, college, HS playoffs etc, so I am going to give them at that age the tools they need to succeed which is attention to the movement pitches. They have had years of fastball training, so don't need more, because the wrist does completely different things for the movement and it takes time in lessons. That is what these customers want.

So Screwball, your pitcher is in a game, tied 1-1, since I am sure she is a good pitcher and keeping your team in the game. But, the defense has a letdown, the bases are loaded in the bottom of the 8th, and your pitcher has a 3-1 count on the batter. What is your pitcher going to throw here? My next pitch is going to be a strike! Period! Or the game is over. After that, all bets are off. I would probably go to the mound, and I would chill the batter, calm down my pitcher and talk strategy with her. Get her involved! That next pitch might be a change-up, a rise, or what-ever. But on a look, a swing and miss, a foul ball, that 3-1 count is going to be a pitch she can throw for a low corner strike 80% of the time.

A lot of the pitchers at the World Cup struggled with control. Only Jordan Taylor was real effective and even she had one bad outing. I was not sitting near the fence for any game except the championship, so I was above the plate most of the game. None of the Japanese pitchers were throwing fastballs. They were throwing constant changes of speed, including change-ups. The reason is one of them threw 55mph and the other about 58mph. They were among the slowest pitchers in the tournament. Ueno of course coached 3rd base because of an oblique strain. But I saw plenty of what looked like fastballs, or peel drops, etc.

A fastball with off-set finger pressures is still a fastball.

My issue with this is thinking outside the box. One extreme would be a team, say, Greece, which doesn't have a team anymore since their coalition Socialist/Communist government seems to have created budget issues, but who can't throw rise-balls. What do they throw? Fastballs? Why? Because that is all they can throw for strikes. Now you have the example I gave above and what do you throw. Do you constrain your options because of some kind of prejudice that I personally don't think is realistic! If you can throw 63mph and hit the low outside corner consistently, mix your pitches and especially speeds but also location, even coming up and in once in awhile with a fastball you can win in DI. As I said before, we faced a pitcher from Illinois State that did just that and had a low 2.0+ ERA, a good win/loss record, and pitched in the Pepsi Classic, now the Kajikawa Classic, in Tempe. That was the first of 5 encounters with her. And since I was coaching in these games, I think I know what she was throwing.

My point is, if she couldn't throw an effective rise-ball, etc. What is she going to throw? She never did learn to throw a good rise, and the fastball was her bread and butter; because it was what she could throw for precise strikes. I don't advocate this approach for everyone, but there are times not to put limitations on our perspective. Do what can and does work!

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Steve, you need to clear some of your private messages. Your box is full and you can't receive anymore.

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve, you need to clear some of your private messages. Your box is full and you can't receive anymore.

It is Done!

 

[halskinner]

If whatever grip they use, whatever their release point is or whatever their follow through is, if it does not work IT IS A FASTBALL.

So, in effect, they all have fastballs,,, now and then.

 

[BoardMember]

I aways laughed when I heard coaches tell hitters to move up in the box to battle a rise.........

But you can also battle drop the same way.....Especially with thumbers who lack velocity and live on "off-speed"....

Push the catcher as far back as you can..........After about 10 short hops, watch the pitcher bring the ball up in the zone to reach the catcher.........Bringing drop up at release, makes is less effective because of the change in release point and posture and ultimately spin rates.........

I crackes me up when coaches battle "thumbers" by moving closer........AS IF they can't throw it "slower"...........

Boardmember, this was the case in the World Cup in Oklahoma City last summer when I asked the Czech coach why his pitchers were always "pitching in reverse". He asked what I meant, and I told him his pitchers have been trained to throw rise-balls out of the zone, and every batter has a 2-0 count on them, and then he started calling fast-balls. Now I will say this. His primary pitchers threw about 58mph. At that level I don't think they throw hard enough to start off every batter with fastballs. But I doubt the BA against would have gone up if they had relied more on fastballs or starting some batters, in particular with the heart of the order, with some change-ups. But there is one certainty! Their walks would have gone down; instead of 5 walks a game they might have given up 2 walks a game. A secondary issue is that it was 105-108 degrees every day. So why not try to keep your pitcher out there as long as possible and work on her tan?

One more point! It was peculiar to me that most programs in Europe have few pitchers who throw a drop ball. It seems that 80% of the pitching focus is on throwing a rise. If I am facing Dallas Escobedo, my hitters are standing in the back of the box, and not swinging at anything from the rib-cage up until she proves to me she can throw strikes. And yes, this can be practiced at any level.

 

[marriard]

My point is, if she couldn't throw an effective rise-ball, etc. What is she going to throw? She never did learn to throw a good rise, and the fastball was her bread and butter; because it was what she could throw for precise strikes. I don't advocate this approach for everyone, but there are times not to put limitations on our perspective. Do what can and does work!

More than one way to pitch??? Quick moderator ban him. Just kidding...

I watched the tournament at FAU last weekend with 6 different college teams and saw maybe 14 different D1 pitchers in the games I watched. Guess what - they all did what they did differently and for the most part very effectively. Some moved it a lot, some tried to blow it by the batter, some lived on their off-speed or breaking balls, some worked inside, some outside. 2 threw fast balls with 'hello elbow'. One pitched entirely closed. I saw at least 4 types of change ups - probably more I missed. Some were small (shortest starter was 5'5") some tall (tallest was 6'1"). One had one of the worse arm circles you could imagine - way off center and not even really a circle - still not sure how the ball went where she wanted it - but it did.

Now I have got my daily Dr Suess out.

The point is ALL these players are on D1 rosters and are playing.