Find a Current or Recent College/Elite US Pitcher WITH Fastball

[Screwball]

Here is a quote from a softball book from 1990:

"Most high-level baseball pitchers throw a high percentage of fastballs. This is not the case in softball. Pitching at the collegiate level of softball usually involves the mastery of 5 different pitches (fastball, rise, curve, drop, change-up). The fastball is not as effective as the other pitches and, therefore, is not thrown as often as it is in baseball."

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Softball-Pitching-Mechanics-Description/dp/0697110583

(That may be a hello elbow on the cover. Also the analysis of the circle is interesting, but these are separate discussion.)

Please post an example (documentation would be nice). I know that a pitcher in regionals from maybe 2009 at Jacksonville State had only a fastball and change up.

 

[Lozza]

Ueno is one.

But if she's not American I guess she doesn't count. She's only the best pitcher in the world.

 

[CoachKirk]

Chelsea Thomas - Missouri. This is according to her pitching coach Doug Gillis. Also, Megan Christopher (Mizzou catcher 2008 - 2011, 2011 Big 12 defensive player of the year) will tell you the same thing.

 

[Lozza]

Well if that's the case then American pitching coaches need to change their grips slightly. It's very, very easy to throw a four seam fastball with spin. Very easy. There's also two seam fastballs (which have wicked spin on them, though lose some speed so they're a great off speed fastball)

Breaking pitches have their place and are very, very important for the higher levels but a well placed fastball is killer.

 

[Lozza]

The reviews aren't very good on Amazon. It's also twenty years old. I was seven when that book came out. Softball pitching has changed a LOT since then.

 

[Screwball]

I am interested in the evolution.

 

[chinamigarden]

I let the players choose grips or we try all kinds. I don't really mandate something. I can see that if young ones have perceived control issues, teachers want to reign them in to please parents and coaches. Another reason not to reign them in so much.

The difference in finger length affects movement. My fastball with U is not slower and does not move. I have a student with a huge difference in her finger length and no matter how she throws a fastball it moves.


The one in the 1990 book is different than any I have ever heard of, so will keep reading.

Amazon.com: SOFTBALL FASTPITCH - PITCHING FUNDAMENTALS (9780982364703): Melinda N Cook-Carpenter, Audella Patterson-Cook: Books

I am going to get this book to add to my collection.

Never considered finger length difference. It would make a difference. My dd throws a fastball that moves in on RH hitters, it moves enough that people who catch her think she is spinning it. She isn't home right now, but when she gets home I am going to see how much diff there is in the length of her fingers.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

But the fastballs and breaking balls were typically with 1-3 mph of each other, in many case they were the same.

I don't know if that's exactly true. Believe it or not we have a TV, and I sure see speeds in FP vary up to 10 mph with breaking pitches. ( all kinds )
But I'll use your 3 MPH difference in FP, would be about the same as % MPH difference in baseball breaking pitches.

Speeds compared to BB fastball****
Cutter is about 4-5 slower
Split 6-7 slower
CU 10 slower
slider 5-10 slower
knuckle 15-20 slower

It appears from watching Japanese videos (can't understand the audio of course) that they teach all kinds of wrist action on the fastball, cutters, corkscews, or curve follow throughs, etc. That's fine, not knocking it, just trying to examine what is going on in the US.

Since the east is kicking our butt in every day life from goods, to science, to education and technology..........maybe we ought to expand our thinking some.

The reviews aren't very good on Amazon. It's also twenty years old. I was seven when that book came out. Softball pitching has changed a LOT since then.

I was a junior in HS. The good ole days!!

The difference in finger length affects movement. My fastball with U is not slower and does not move. I have a student with a huge difference in her finger length and no matter how she throws a fastball it moves.

Then why are you wasting her time with a moving fastball if you are so against it??

Here I see a lot of plain C grips, that would appear to not move. While the pitcher's are asked to throw movement with four seams because of the claim of more movement, they are taught 4-seam fastballs that according to most books, don't move. They are taught to throw it without movement!

Not sure how you can have it both ways, if someone could explain please, why you need 4-seams to move when you impart spin and 4 seams on a fastball to throw it straight?

A 4 seam in FP can come straight, or it can move. It all depends on the grip and the fingers. Sliding the fingers in different positions over the threads will effect the rotation and thus the trajectory.

The 4 seam in BB is really the only straight ( flat ) pitch we have. Because of the backwards spin it really doesn't rise, it just doesn't fall as fast. Which will mess with your head after seeing everything drop in some fashion.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

The books disagree with you (3 so far) on this 4 seam moving or not, they say not.

I don't put much faith in books. For the most part they are written to sell and make money as oppose to generally helping. They are selling a product, the more intriguing the more potential buyers. But sometimes you can find good information if you dig through the garbage.

The fastball has back spin?
I am confused.

In my example I was talking about a BB FB. Yes it has backspin. That's why it's flat. It would take 2x's the force of the weight of the ball to make it rise. ( meaning over 150 MPH )

Why don't you ask a college coach about this instead of getting on me about it. I threw mostly fastballs in my day, so not my issue.

I'm not getting on you at all. Like I said in a post on Steve's thread, not everyone can make a FB work. You either can or you can't. Just the same as not everyone can throw a successful screw. Just because a good screw or FB thrower are the minority does not mean the pitches are useless in general. If anything they should be praised for the accomplishments that the majority can't achieve.

However, my students need to be ready for showcases, college, HS playoffs etc, so I am going to give them at that age the tools they need to succeed which is attention to the movement pitches. They have had years of fastball training, so don't need more, because the wrist does completely different things for the movement and it takes time in lessons. That is what these customers want.

I truly understand.

 

[BoardMember]

Everytime I talk to a fellow pitching coach and they tell me they just don't work on fastball because it's "rarely thrown" I giggle.........Then I asked them to show me how they teach it........And get their students to throw a few.........And it becomes glaringly obvious why they don't work on it..........

I've had a least 4 of my pitchers quit travel teams because they have "team pc's" who call pitches........They inevetably "over pitch" in most situations........Bury pitchers deep in the count.........Raise pitch counts by 30% or more........And increase walks and opposing averages sometimes 2 fold...........

I guess I just have little use for anyone who says fastball is not "just another pitch in the tool box".........And I refuse to believe that most every pitcher, at some point in every game, doesn't use some form of fastball in situations that call for them........Even if the coach doesn't know it........

IMO, there's a reason when a pc say's "I don't teach FB"........

But hey........To each his own I guess...........