Drop ball video and still images of hand at release

[sluggers]

I was asked to re-post images of my DD throwing a drop. The video is from 1999 or so. (She didn't like the umpire's call of the pitch.) The images are from 2011.

It is clear from the video she is throwing the "roll over" drop. The images of the hand show that she releases the ball with the palm of her hand facing the plate. You can see the tremendous rotation she gets from IR.

You have to click on the image to see the pictures of the hand.



[video=youtube_share;JhozkKPON7k]http://youtu.be/JhozkKPON7k[/video]

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Thanks. I have a change up, that I throw like that. (The ball is pushed back in my palm, though.)

 

[Dave619]

Thanks for the video and pics. The frame by frame really helps you see the hand movement.

 

[Rocketech1]

Is it fair to say then that the rollover drop is the same as a peel drop with the only difference is the rollover has a more exaggerated follow though which does not effect the pitch since the ball has already left the hand before the follow though?

One point that I think is often misunderstood about IR is that everyone focuses on the follow through as being important when discussing IR, however IR is happening from 12 o'clock into and through release. To me this is the key point behind maximizing IR, it not only creates great arm whip but also the tight spin for the drop ball.

Also, what grip is she using here and does it matter? Hillhouse argues that the 4 seam grip is preferable because it "bites" more?

 

[Ken B]

I think a pitcher has to use whatever feel, cue, release, grip, etc., that works for them. At the exact moment of release, I think still images of both drop and peels look pretty much the same. Using observation only, one might conclude that only the follow through is different. Try to explain that to someone who pitches one way or the other, and they are not going to get it. They will tell you what they feel and what you are saying probably won't make sense. To say one is better because it works for them is tough without a hardcore study with slo-mo video, pitching stats, etc.

I think it's important to understand that although the hand doesn't really travel up the back, over the top and down the front side; that might be the suggested feel to get the spin. Same might be true for any of the peel variants. The outcome and how they get there is much more important.

 

[starsnuffer]

A peel drop is thrown with the fingertips facing the ground. A "rollover" is a peel drop thrown with the fingers facing third base (RHP). What you really have is just a grip preference. We all know that the only thing that makes a pitch move is spin, the rest is semantics.

-W

 

[sluggers]

Is it fair to say then that the rollover drop is the same as a peel drop with the only difference is the rollover has a more exaggerated follow though which does not effect the pitch since the ball has already left the hand before the follow though?

No.

There are two ways to put spin on a ball. One way to get 12 to 6 rotation is to move the fingers or hands vertically before, during and after release. This is the "classic peel". The other way to get 12 to 6 rotation is to rotate the fingers and hand like you are turning a door knob.

It is like spinning a top. It is possible to wrap string around the post of the top and pull it. Your hand is moving in a straight line, and, with the help of the string, is putting spin on the top. OR you could grab the post on the top with your fingers, rapidly rotate your fingers, and put spin on the top. Both methods have the same end result. The mechanics are quite a bit different.

Another example is ping-pong forehands. In the Chinese forehand, the paddle is rapidly rotated to put spin on the ball. On the other hand, most Americans put spin on the ball by starting the paddle low and then "sweeping" the paddle upward with no rotation on the paddle.

You are correct that the "follow through" of the hand does not affect the ball. (By the same analysis, nothing before release affects the ball.) However, the before and after follow through shows the path of the hand and shows how "hard" the arm and hand are rotating at release.

A peel drop is thrown with the fingertips facing the ground. A "rollover" is a peel drop thrown with the fingers facing third base (RHP).

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. In a roll over, the fingers face 3B at 9, then rotate downward at release, and continue to rotate until they point up.

 

[Adman]

IR, however IR is happening from 12 o'clock into and through release. To me this is the key point behind maximizing IR, it not only creates great arm whip but also the tight spin for the drop ball.

Just a small nit here, but I would say that external rotation along with the supination of the forearm typically happens up to 9 o'clock (or 3 o'clock if you prefer). This is what allows the palm to be up and elbow in to the side. After 9 o'clock is generally when the internal rotation begins.

The slow-mo video of Ueno shows this pretty well.