Developing an intelligent pitcher

[JAD]

Another thread brought up the question of whether or not pitchers should "think for themselves" or "just throw what the coach calls" when they are in the circle. As my DD has developed as a pitcher we work more and more on the mental side of pitching. A pitcher needs to be mentally tough AND intelligent to be successful. Mental toughness allows the pitcher to forget about the "last pitch" and focus on the "next pitch", while intelligence allows the pitcher to make adjustments to game situations.

When we call pitches, we divide the plate in five zones. 1 - inside chalk of the batters box, 2- inside river/corner, 3 - down the middle, 4 - outside corner/river, 5 - outside chalk of the batters box. As illustrated in the picture, zones 1, 2, 4 and 5 are approximately 2 softballs wide, while zone 3 is approximately 3 balls wide. When the coach or catcher calls for a screwball in the 2 hole, the pitcher needs to be able to process information and have the control to decide if she is going to throw the pitch to 2A, 2A/B, or 2B. 2A could be called a ball, 2B may be hit hard, and 2A/B is a compromise between the two.

Some information the pitcher needs to consider when deciding which "spot" to hit - count on the batter (3-0, 3-2, 0-2), which batter in the line up (1-3, 4-6, 7-9), what did the batter do in her last at bat, rightie/leftie, what is the game situation (tie game, close game, blowout), are there runners on base, is first base open, lead off batter in the inning, umpires strike zone, defensive alignment, defensive personnel....

 

[corlay]

what about the vertical aspect of the zone?

at 12u/14u we have typically used a "four corner" pitch calling scheme with 5 being down the middle. Our catcher defetermines where to offer target, and decide between your 1,2 or 4,5 horizontally, (as well as how inside or outside the zone in the vertical dimension) based upon the situation.

 

[JAD]

what about the vertical aspect of the zone?

at 12u/14u we have typically used a "four corner" pitch calling scheme with 5 being down the middle. Our catcher defetermines where to offer target, and decide between your 1,2 or 4,5 horizontally, (as well as how inside or outside the zone in the vertical dimension) based upon the situation.

For us the vertical is determined by where the catcher set up the glove. Some pitch callers use quadrants, and a smart pitcher needs to know which section of the quadrant to hit.

 

[Phathead]

DD pitched in pool game this weekend. I noticed no coach calling pitches so DD talks to catcher and tells her to sit middle and she will throw to knees or shoulders. Not saying this was ideal nor is she great at hitting her spots but I loved watching her try to work batters. I watched her trying to set up batters etc just like we have talked about many times. It was great experience for her. Later in a bracket game she asked me to call pitches and with the coaches ok I did.

 

[sutherlandfinch]

JAD,

I binge read this forum and because most of my girls are at camps ,The beach, or on visits this weekend thought it was a perfect time to catch up.

I'm really surprised that you don't have more responses to this thread because it's one of the most important questions I've seen posted here in a long time.

" The intelligent pitcher." Hmmm

I love listening to vets, alumni, past pitchers and present. I love their war stories . When my daughter would to go on visits during her recruiting phase she would always warn coach "he's going to make you tell stories" .....and I did

Not one of the stories I've collected included "couldn't wait for him to call in the next pitch from the bucket." they were epic battles of pitchers and catchers figuring out batters before batters could figure them out or scouting reports being signaled in of weaknesses and tendencies so that the pitcher could exploit them. At the time I just thought it must have been different back then. Pitchers actually thought for themselves.

In our household it was Maddux. He was a god and my daughter was his high priestess of 4 speed pitching. She still has a dvd of every game he threw in mlb. His perfection never came from a dugout and she knew it.

Don't get me wrong, there are some excellent pitch callers at the collegiate level (Rocha comes to mind among many others)and because of it , I make it mandatory for my girls to transcribe college games to figure out the "why" of it all. Then we sit back and analyze Tendencies,tells, predictability ( a big issue for TB coaches unfortunately) counts, beating batters with your best stuff, listening for coaches corrections to help magnify weaknesses, etc

We talk about why a ball needs to stay in the zone at 15 feet away, why a ball has to have so many revs to break, why a pitch should be thrown at a certain count to a certain type of batter, why hydrate, why scout your next team, why you carry your own gear. Why,why,why.

And you know something.....they get it. Kids are smart and learn amazingly fast if you let them.

all too often it means nothing when they put the uniform on and get to the field because Coach isn't quite ready to let go of the reins.
The intelligent pitcher must wait for their leader at times.

In college, it's business. And if you have an experienced professional on staff, you use them. And your job is to facilitate the plan. That is the job. Of course........ But what about 10 through 18? I wonder.

I wonder if a girl dedicated enough to spend 8 to 20 hours a week on her pitching could possibly have a hand in choosing what to throw to the pigtailed,gum chewing, braces wearing terror standing at the plate.

I may be in the minority but I think they can handle it. Many are just waiting to prove it.

Thanks for the topic. Shred away guys but before you do,check out one of my favorite games.

Tinch no hits team USA to break the 185 game exhibition streak. 21-year-old kid and her 21-year-old catcher against the best hitting team in the world.

And they did it without a single pitch being called in from the dugout. I wonder where they got the experience to do that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SPpHmQWUiDU

 

[riseball]

JAD,

I binge read this forum and because most of my girls are at camps ,The beach, or on visits this weekend thought it was a perfect time to catch up.

I'm really surprised that you don't have more responses to this thread because it's one of the most important questions I've seen posted here in a long time.

" The intelligent pitcher." Hmmm

I love listening to vets, alumni, past pitchers and present. I love their war stories . When my daughter would to go on visits during her recruiting phase she would always warn coach "he's going to make you tell stories" .....and I did��

Not one of the stories I've collected included "couldn't wait for him to call in the next pitch from the bucket." they were epic battles of pitchers and catchers figuring out batters before batters could figure them out or scouting reports being signaled in of weaknesses and tendencies so that the pitcher could exploit them. At the time I just thought it must have been different back then. Pitchers actually thought for themselves.

In our household it was Maddux. He was a god and my daughter was his high priestess of 4 speed pitching. She still has a dvd of every game he threw in mlb. His perfection never came from a dugout and she knew it.

Don't get me wrong, there are some excellent pitch callers at the collegiate level (Rocha comes to mind among many others)and because of it , I make it mandatory for my girls to transcribe college games to figure out the "why" of it all. Then we sit back and analyze Tendencies,tells, predictability ( a big issue for TB coaches unfortunately) counts, beating batters with your best stuff, listening for coaches corrections to help magnify weaknesses, etc

We talk about why a ball needs to stay in the zone at 15 feet away, why a ball has to have so many revs to break, why a pitch should be thrown at a certain count to a certain type of batter, why hydrate, why scout your next team, why you carry your own gear. Why,why,why.

And you know something.....they get it. Kids are smart and learn amazingly fast if you let them.

all too often it means nothing when they put the uniform on and get to the field because Coach isn't quite ready to let go of the reins.
The intelligent pitcher must wait for their leader at times.

In college, it's business. And if you have an experienced professional on staff, you use them. And your job is to facilitate the plan. That is the job. Of course........ But what about 10 through 18? I wonder.

I wonder if a girl dedicated enough to spend 8 to 20 hours a week on her pitching could possibly have a hand in choosing what to throw to the pigtailed,gum chewing, braces wearing terror standing at the plate.

I may be in the minority but I think they can handle it. Many are just waiting to prove it.

Thanks for the topic. Shred away guys but before you do,check out one of my favorite games.

Tinch no hits team USA to break the 185 game exhibition streak. 21-year-old kid and her 21-year-old catcher against the best hitting team in the world.

And they did it without a single pitch being called in from the dugout. I wonder where they got the experience to do that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SPpHmQWUiDU

Some great anecdotes but like it or not the vast majority of the time, especially at the elite college level the game is called from the dugout. The MLB analogy is pointless, as you cannot compare a 18-22 year old working 2 part-time jobs with a full time MLB catcher being paid upwards of a $1M a year to call pitches. Kind of like comparing a Cessna Pilot to a Fighter Pilot. To me it does not make a whole lot of sense to spend an inordinate amount of time preparing 10-18 year olds to call their own games. Especially when that time could be spent refining other more important skills. That said, quite often I turn the game over to my pitches and catchers and they do quite well. Although my pitching chart shows that it is much more about execution of the pitch than what pitch is called. Interestingly when things go South or during the last game on Sunday they want me on the bucket although I would much rather sit back in the shade and relax.

Yes, we need to develop smart pitchers and catchers, but we need to let go of the baseball catching nostalgia that has nothing to do with the women's game. It is not about teaching them to think for themselves as much as developing a deep understanding of the game so they understand the why.

 

[Cannonball]

Anytime you coach a player on the field, the "why" has to be a part of the process. With pitching, I think it is important to stand next to the pitcher and explain why they do things in private instruction. With my dd, I was her instructor for most of her career and so, I'd try from the bucket to explain why. Then, we had imaginary hitters step up and I'd give her the situation and the abilities of the hitter. Then, I would ask her to call her game BUT let me know why she was doing what she was doing. In TB games, I tried to get any pitchers who were not in the game to grab a bucket and sit down next to me so that we could talk pitching during the game. A part of this coaching has to involve, imo, the ability of a pitcher to throw a pregame and go to the coach and say which pitches are working that day and which aren't. Note, that doesn't mean that the pitches that aren't working won't be thrown. It simply means that they might not be called extensively in the first couple of innings until the pitcher gets a better feel for the game and her pitches.

I haven't read the thread where the argument is whether the pitcher throws what the coach calls or pitches her own game. Therefore, I don't know the context of the question. However, I do know that if a coach is calling a game and the pitcher goes out on her own to throw what she wants, then she should be ready to accept the consequences if she is doing so against what the coach wants. As I've stated before, I used a system where I called the pitches along with my catcher. We had "hot" signals where the catcher could ask me to call the pitch for an at bat or just a pitch. I had a signal denoting that I was calling a pitch or an at bat. Naturally, I also had a signal telling the catcher to call the game. With the pitchers, we gave them the ability to shake and we gave them a "brush system" to let the catcher or myself know what they wanted to throw. One particular 4 year starter only shucked one call in his HS career and he was very good. In fact, he got to play on the East Coast. I called a change and he wanted a FB. I tapped my head saying that I was calling the pitch and he "brushed" that he wanted the FB. That FB turned into a Grand Slam and we didn't get to go to state. He lives with that and to this day, it is how he greets me with an apology. So, point is, if they shake a coach or simply throw what they want to throw, they will have to live with the results should they be bad. JMHO!

 

[quincy]

Once the batters start hitting the ball out of the park I think it gets interesting. The trick might be to teach them what they need to know before then. There is one batter DD pitches against that I do not want any part of, she is a much better hitter then DD is a P.

I have never figured out how to get a good look at the strike zone sitting on the bench. High and low I have a clue, inside or outside not so much.

 

[Pitching Dad]

My daughters PC pitched in College and called her own pitches, she was extremely effective and 85-7 for her career. We used to watch her pitch in games and she chose what to throw and when. I tried to pick up on how she was conveigning what she wanted to throw to her catcher and I couldnt pick it up so I asked her.
She said have you noticed that sometimes while getting signs I either have the ball in my pitching hand or my glove? My catcher knows that if its in my pitching hand I want 1 of 2 signs, if in my glove I want 1 of 2 other signs so I either get the sign I want or not- So its a 50-50 chance she gives the right sign and I only have to shake off one.

 

[RetiredCoach]

My oldest DD, who is 16, is very smart at calling her own pitches. Probably better than me now, though we consult on it. My younger DD, who is 14, prefers that the pitches be called for her. She rather just focus on the game and making the pitches, rather than deciding what should be thrown. So, what is right may be determine on a case-by-case business.