Candrea says you only need a rise, drop, and change....but

[Screwball]

http://responsiblesports.com/common/cms/documents/Dec_2011_Candrea_Answers.pdf

Others agree.

If this is the case, then why all the screwballs thrown by Kenzie Fowler in the WCWS, which IIRC caused the loss?

Should he do what he says with his pitchers in college?

I think yes to the following question (most pitchers in HS/14u & up travel have them)--Is there still room for curves and screws?

 

[starsnuffer]

He was asked that same question at a clinic recently. His response, "You can't really change pitchers at this level, you have to work with what you get. We're hoping that you guys (meaning the audience) will get the message and pass it on to the younger players so that by the time they get to us, they will have the right tools".

-W

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Yep, and she was having so much trouble with the crow hoping, that she was doing good to throw the pitch that she knew.

 

[shockcoach]

I also agree. After you learn those, you can mix them with a screw or curve rotation, but you should always change planes on your pitch, IMHO. Hillhouse also teaches to change planes.

 

[luvsb]

My DD works with Paul Rainmeyer and that is his beleif too. It is a lot harder to hit a ball that is changing the plane than it is to hit a ball that stays flat like a curve or screw. A drop curve is a nasty pitch.

 

[starsnuffer]

A drop curve is exactly on the bat plane for a RH batter, when thrown low in the zone. Good batters will utilize body tilt to hit the low pitches and send a drop curve a long way. Drop curves are useful against LH batters and slappers only. A curve ball low in the zone is actually not on the plane of the bat for the same reason. I wish we could get more coaches to think before they open their mouth.

-W

 

[chinamigarden]

A drop curve is exactly on the bat plane for a RH batter, when thrown low in the zone. Good batters will utilize body tilt to hit the low pitches and send a drop curve a long way. Drop curves are useful against LH batters and slappers only. A curve ball low in the zone is actually not on the plane of the bat for the same reason. I wish we could get more coaches to think before they open their mouth.

-W

Are you saying that a curve ball is never on plane with the bat? Like one thigh or waist high? Any pitch can be hit a long way if put in the wrong place.

and I agree with your last sentence.

 

[fastpitch91]

this may be a obvious point but if you check your physics book

every pitch is changing planes. Unless you can eliminate gravity pulls every pitch down... and its only by throwing with a slight upward velocity that a ball can appear to go flat. but if you look at high speed video you will see pitches have a arc to them. a rise ball has to be thrown up some...no amount of spin can overcome gravity.

and I always wondered with no curve or screw, its pretty tough to get a called strike especially when the ump dials in the zone to a 12 by 12" or smaller box.

And at higher levels of play I have rarely seen a strike zone above the belt and getting a rise to break from the knees to the belt (ie through the zone to get a called strike) is a pretty rare pitch..............except perhaps with the top 1-3% of pitchers

nOW candrea is lucky...he gets to coach the rarified group!

 

[Sparky Guy]

A drop curve is exactly on the bat plane for a RH batter, when thrown low in the zone. Good batters will utilize body tilt to hit the low pitches and send a drop curve a long way.

Only if you throw it the same way every time. If a pitcher changes speeds and spin rates on the pitch it breaks differently making it harder for the hitter to get the correct tilt and on plane with with pitch as well as timing it. My daughter had a real good drop curve. The net result with the RH hitters was usually a grounder hit to 1st or 2nd. There were many games where there would be two or three balls removed from game because there were smile shaped cuts in the ball from the end of the hitters bats. I would say 30% of her K's came on drop curves with many of them looking. She averaged 9-10 Ks/7 through 16-18U travel and 8-9 K's/7 through 4 years of college.

The caveat is the pitchers also needs another good movement pitch to keep the hitters honest. Without that they WILL sit on a drop curve and hit it hard.

The drop curve is a very hard pitch for slappers to hit. Especially if the (RH)pitcher is not afraid of throwing it to them and throws it for strikes. They usually swing over the top of it or beat hard into the ground to the pitchers glove side for a routine out.

I wish we could get more coaches to think before they open their mouth.

It's that type of thinking that keeps kids from finding what they can and can't do with their talents. There are kids out there who can throw the drop curve and be effective with it against all types of hitters.

 

[Sparky Guy]

no amount of spin can overcome gravity.

I believe I read somewhere you can get a ball to rise and overcome gravity. However, the rpm's needed to do it were waaay beyond what a human can do.