Best Change Up Grip for Small Hands??

[lhowser]

Yes I get that theory Dad. I'm just not as sold on that theory as some are...........

Apparantly neither are these girls..............And they seemed to have done ok........

I like to focus more on "sales" (arm speed), velocity change, and LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION as they say.......

The young lady in the blue above won 3 straight Div. 4 section titles in Nor Cal living on that change........It was pretty much un-hittable.........

Here's my experience........As a hitter.......If you're focused on arm movement AFTER release......You're pretty much toast in .35 sec it takes the average pitch speed to reach the plate.......So IF you don't "pick" change BEFORE release your pretty much dead.......IOW.......Arm speed is more important then the "look" of the follow through......

The beauty of this pitch is that there are no fingers propelling the ball toward home.......The pitch relies on the momentum of elbow flexion to reach the plate.........Instead of flipping potential backspin that keeps the ball floating into the zone........Or worse....UP in the zone if the flip is mis-timed........

I am liking the flip less and less. It floats. Most girls are inconsistent from day to day and it is a pretty easy spin to read. Something that tumbles and falls seems far better and easier.

Looking at this Michelle Smith clip is she pushing the ball off of her thumb and steadying it with her index finger? Is it just the horseshoe and and tension between the thumb and fingers getting it there?

I've had success with a few kids taking the pressure off the ball with the index and middle finger and more or less horse shoeing and getting it up there with the ring and pinkie fingers. Kind of spins and falls down and out.

 

[BoardMember]

I am liking the flip less and less. It floats. Most girls are inconsistent from day to day and it is a pretty easy spin to read. Something that tumbles and falls seems far better and easier.

Exactly right.........

Looking at this Michelle Smith clip is she pushing the ball off of her thumb and steadying it with her index finger? Is it just the horseshoe and and tension between the thumb and fingers getting it there?

EXACTLY RIGHT once again.........

I've had success with a few kids taking the pressure off the ball with the index and middle finger and more or less horse shoeing and getting it up there with the ring and pinkie fingers. Kind of spins and falls down and out.

I can see that working as well.......

 

[lhowser]

Exactly right.........



EXACTLY RIGHT once again.........



I can see that working as well.......

Good. Then it's up to the kids to practice and up to me to understand how to make them feel it. thx.

 

[jbooth]

The clock is from the pitcher's perspective, so it is 3:00, people. If you tell her 9, she thinks that's out in front. Do you teach hitters as if you are watching them from outside?

As long as you and your student understand it the same way, it doesn't matter. But, I would guess that MOST of the world uses 9:00 as the position of the arm being horizontal with the ball on the second base side of the rubber.

Just as BoardMember showed in the photo below;

When I first started playing fast pitch in 1976; it was in a Men's Modified league and it was called the 9:00 o'clock league, because you couldn't windmill, and you could only take the ball BACKWARD to the 9:00 position.

Later I moved up to the 12:00 league and then the full windmill. I've never heard 3:00 used as the rearward position except now from you.

 

[BoardMember]

Good ol' SR fastpitch eh Jimmy?..........And just think........I started pitching in that 9:00 league! And it's where my pitching philosophy originated from.......HOW DO YOU THROW THE HARDEST POSSIBLE PITCH with the most spin from 46ft from the 9:00 position???.........I'll tell you how......180 Degrees of Internal Rotation!

When the league changed from 9:00 to 12:00.......HOW DO YOU GET TO PALM UP AT 9:00 loaded for I/R........Face the ball to the catcher at 12:00 and PULL IT STRAIGHT DOWN from the elbow and then internally rotate 180 degrees! Then, when they finally allowed full windmill......It was just a matter of the windup moving up and around the top, instead of up the back and down........

From that learning curve........I began training pitchers using the I/R method.......

So my 9:00 drill is from my days in the 9:00 league.......And my 12:00 drill is from my days in the 12:00 league.........

 

[Perfect Circle]

Coletrain...
Here is the one we got from Hal... I posted the link to our model grips page...Flat Finger Knuckle Ball by:Hal Skinner
scroll down the page its towards the bottom of page one... #8. He give's a concise explanation,as with everything he says. My DD tried it the first time and that was the end of trying, she put it right in her package. Throw it the same way she throws her other pitches... want to keep every pitch the same...
...Make sure she has fingers behind the seams, and ball back tight against the palm...Keep it low.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/6266-model-grips.html

 

[jbooth]

Good ol' SR fastpitch eh Jimmy?..........And just think........I started pitching in that 9:00 league! And it's where my pitching philosophy originated from.......HOW DO YOU THROW THE HARDEST POSSIBLE PITCH with the most spin from 46ft from the 9:00 position???.........I'll tell you how......180 Degrees of Internal Rotation!

Yep, I remember many cold, windy, spring night games at Albert Park. Wind blowing in from left, you needed a cannon to hit one deep.

 

[Coletrain]

My DD and I have been working on the horse shoe change and it seems to be working well. Thanks for all the info!

 

[SWING KING]

IMO the horseshoe change is by far the simplest to throw and easiest to learn and the most effective for smaller hands.......

The index through pinkie fingers are all touching each other (opposite of spread apart) and the thumb is opposite the index finger making a "C" shape with the hand. The "C" shape hugs the horseshoe on the laces on the ball......

As the pitching arm turns over the top of the circle, and thumb is rotated inward toward the thigh and fingers outside the ball by 9:00 (early I/R). The pitcher shuts down humerus (upper arm) at the side and snap-flexes the elbow upward toward the throwing arm shoulder to propel the ball toward the plate.....

Here is one of Mr. Balswick's students performing the horseshoe change:

And here is one of mine:

The 2 keys to this pitch are to get the thumb rotated inward toward the thigh BY 9:00 (early I/R) and keep it there right down through release and up through finish..........This shuts down the I/R sequence all together as the ball is delivered in the form of a short-arm flip up AT THE ELBOW......

2nd, is to keep the pivot foot back as close to the mound as possible (like dragging an anchor) which shuts down the linear drive train, dampening the sharp "acceleration corner" created as the arm moves over the top of the circle during a full on linear drive train delivery.........

The benefit of this "Sell" is that the quick "snap up" of elbow flexion LOOKS like a RISE BALL delivery to the hitter, when in the fact the ball falls off the table with 10-15mph of decelerated velocity........

This is the change I teach to ALL size hands.......Large or small...........

can someone show this grip

 

[Ball Game]

IMO the horseshoe change is by far the simplest to throw and easiest to learn and the most effective for smaller hands.......

The index through pinkie fingers are all touching each other (opposite of spread apart) and the thumb is opposite the index finger making a "C" shape with the hand. The "C" shape hugs the horseshoe on the laces on the ball......

As the pitching arm turns over the top of the circle, and thumb is rotated inward toward the thigh and fingers outside the ball by 9:00 (early I/R). The pitcher shuts down humerus (upper arm) at the side and snap-flexes the elbow upward toward the throwing arm shoulder to propel the ball toward the plate.....

Here is one of Mr. Balswick's students performing the horseshoe change:

And here is one of mine:

The 2 keys to this pitch are to get the thumb rotated inward toward the thigh BY 9:00 (early I/R) and keep it there right down through release and up through finish..........This shuts down the I/R sequence all together as the ball is delivered in the form of a short-arm flip up AT THE ELBOW......

2nd, is to keep the pivot foot back as close to the mound as possible (like dragging an anchor) which shuts down the linear drive train, dampening the sharp "acceleration corner" created as the arm moves over the top of the circle during a full on linear drive train delivery.........

The benefit of this "Sell" is that the quick "snap up" of elbow flexion LOOKS like a RISE BALL delivery to the hitter, when in the fact the ball falls off the table with 10-15mph of decelerated velocity........

This is the change I teach to ALL size hands.......Large or small...........

He says thumb inward by 9 but all of the laides do not have the thumb inward by 9...slow motion tells me around 7...couple of questions..is 9 just something to drill...are we looking for a more bent elbow...are we trying to shove this pitch?

Thanks