Been working on daughters drag issue by seperating a little more. We look at video of game swings and she doesnt seperate much if at all. Without seperation there is no room for rear elbow forward movement (slotting), so I have been having her start with her hands and elbow just behind her shoulder (towards the catcher). When she loads and strides now she is already seperated, just started doing this the other night. She knows the elbows should work as a unit but is having a hard time making them do so. Hope this makes sense, what do you think?
bat drag and seperation
- Thread starter Mike
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- Oct 25, 2009
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My first two questions when I hear about bat drag is 1, how heavy is (or was) her bat? and 2, does she lead with her hips?
31/21, shes 5'2" about 105#, you could give her a long 10 ounce toothpick to swing and it wouldt change. Does she lead with her hips? Not really.
I believe her problem starts with her timing, she has none. Its wait, wait, wait followed by load, stride, swing all at the same time (notice I didnt add seperate because she doesnt). We have been working on timing with front toss, load at the top of my K and stride at my release, when she does this she hits the ball square and hard. Hand eye coordination is not a problem for her, she rarely strikes out. She gets to live pitches her old habit creeps in.
I am hoping by starting with her hands and rear elbow more towards the catcher and keep working on timing she wont be so rushed to swing. Make any sense?
I believe her problem starts with her timing, she has none. Its wait, wait, wait followed by load, stride, swing all at the same time (notice I didnt add seperate because she doesnt). We have been working on timing with front toss, load at the top of my K and stride at my release, when she does this she hits the ball square and hard. Hand eye coordination is not a problem for her, she rarely strikes out. She gets to live pitches her old habit creeps in.
I am hoping by starting with her hands and rear elbow more towards the catcher and keep working on timing she wont be so rushed to swing. Make any sense?
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Mike, I'm wondering if I'm interpreting what you wrote correctly. Your daughter was "loading" (I'll assume you meant the lower body), "striding" (I'll assume she was 'stretching' during this) and then "swinging" ... almost seems like she was using a Coil-Stretch-Swing sequence. You are modifying that sequence to start with her hands pre-set back ... and in many cases that will mean eliminating the 'stretch'.
Not sure why you posted ... but if it was for comment, then my comment is that it sounds like you are moving your daughter away from a good sequence and towards an inferior sequence. If it works for her, then all the power to you.
Not sure why you posted ... but if it was for comment, then my comment is that it sounds like you are moving your daughter away from a good sequence and towards an inferior sequence. If it works for her, then all the power to you.
Bat drag is often connected with insufficient tilt. In order to get the bat down to the level of the ball they drop it down along with their hands. Most hitters with a at drag problem are very upright from start to finish. Does your daughter have sufficient tilt?
- Oct 25, 2009
- 3,335
- 48
When you say "not really" to leading with the hips I'll assume she doesn't. If she doesn't lead with her hips there is a tendency sometimes to have bat drag. The reason I believe that happens is because the arms/elbows are having to come around the chest too much instead of that area being cleared to allow the arms/hands/elbow/bat to come through cleanly.
Get her to swing in slow motion without using her hips hardly at all and look for the bat drag. Then do the same thing with the hips leading.
Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing I'm thinking of bat drag as the elbow leading the hands.
fiveframe, thats what I am trying to get her to do. She is all bunched up when she swings at live pitching, no load or stretch, just swing at the last second. By starting with her hands already back I was thinking that would take away one thing she has to think about. And if she will stride at or around the pitchers releast point she will be in a good stretched position when its time to swing.
armwhip, yes little tilt and she will bring her hands down to meet the plane of the ball. She has been doing alot more slow motion swings or matrix swings as howard calls them. She is starting to look pretty good in slo mo but it falls apart in live pitching. We both now its a long process and she is the one who wants to get better so the work is a little easier.
phreak, I looked at alot of clips of the hips moving first, the coiled hips appear to slide forward into heel plant. Is that what you mean? And yes bat drag = rear elbow leading the hands.
I will be honest. She did not want to hit all winter and I didnt push her. Tournies started and guess who wants to work harder now, she has realized being a good 2nd baseman is only half the game. Our hitting plan consists mostly of slo mo swings, tee work and front toss. Just trying to get a good first move and alot better timing I think that will help with the bat drag issue.
armwhip, yes little tilt and she will bring her hands down to meet the plane of the ball. She has been doing alot more slow motion swings or matrix swings as howard calls them. She is starting to look pretty good in slo mo but it falls apart in live pitching. We both now its a long process and she is the one who wants to get better so the work is a little easier.
phreak, I looked at alot of clips of the hips moving first, the coiled hips appear to slide forward into heel plant. Is that what you mean? And yes bat drag = rear elbow leading the hands.
I will be honest. She did not want to hit all winter and I didnt push her. Tournies started and guess who wants to work harder now, she has realized being a good 2nd baseman is only half the game. Our hitting plan consists mostly of slo mo swings, tee work and front toss. Just trying to get a good first move and alot better timing I think that will help with the bat drag issue.
- Oct 25, 2009
- 3,335
- 48
Mike, if you look up FFS's clip example of "wring the rag" (Pujols I believe) you'll see what I mean about the hips I think. I believe when you are at that position there's a good chance bat drag will be gone.
I'm thinking when you are referring to better timing that you actually should be thinking better sequence. In other words the mechanics of the swing starting from bottom up.
I'm thinking when you are referring to better timing that you actually should be thinking better sequence. In other words the mechanics of the swing starting from bottom up.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Mike, what you describe in your last post sounds more like an issue of not having a "lower body running start". Probably not a bad time to replicate BM’s post on the topic (may be somewhat modified, but that wasn't the intent). The answer is not to start with the hands already back, but to use a proper sequence that includes a lower body running start.
Lower Body Running Start:
We perform a “Lower Body Running Start” … on EVERY pitch … whether we swing or not.
The lower body ALWAYS GOES..........Whether the hands go or not.
The train is leaving the station........whether the hands jump on or not...............The HANDS swing the bat........But they should ALWAYS be swinging FROM THE TOP OF A MOVING TRAIN.........
The lower body is doing the exact same thing EVERY TIME.........On one side of this clip the hands jumped on early......On the other side, they stayed on the platform waiting for the next train........
You cannot do this if your hands are in-charge of THE LOWER BODY … Mentally OR physically. The hands sync up with the lower body during the “Stretch”.
The lower body ALWAYS goes ….. Or at least STARTS going.
If the train ALWAYS LEAVES ….. Then the hands can jump on and SWING THE BAT early or LATE ….. And still harness the power of the lower body train.
The hands are quick … The hips are slow … The hands can catch a ride (a whip) on the "hip train" anytime they want.
Lower Body Running Start:
We perform a “Lower Body Running Start” … on EVERY pitch … whether we swing or not.
The lower body ALWAYS GOES..........Whether the hands go or not.
The train is leaving the station........whether the hands jump on or not...............The HANDS swing the bat........But they should ALWAYS be swinging FROM THE TOP OF A MOVING TRAIN.........
The lower body is doing the exact same thing EVERY TIME.........On one side of this clip the hands jumped on early......On the other side, they stayed on the platform waiting for the next train........
You cannot do this if your hands are in-charge of THE LOWER BODY … Mentally OR physically. The hands sync up with the lower body during the “Stretch”.
The lower body ALWAYS goes ….. Or at least STARTS going.
If the train ALWAYS LEAVES ….. Then the hands can jump on and SWING THE BAT early or LATE ….. And still harness the power of the lower body train.
The hands are quick … The hips are slow … The hands can catch a ride (a whip) on the "hip train" anytime they want.
