Any guidance would be appreciated.

[do-over]

I'm looking for some guidance...Looking for ideas.

The state of MN doesn't allow 12U players to play up into 14U teams unless they stay with their community travel ball program. The state currently has a policy that 10u and 12u is not an "open" division and that club teams are not allowed at the 10u and 12u levels. An issue in and of itself, but unfortunately the ASA/MMFL has a strangle hold on the policy and it will not change. I've tried numerous times through our ASA Director as well as the National offices in OKC to at least look at the idea of coming up with a way to allow outlier type kids to perhaps play on 14u teams. OKC at least responded, but said it is a state issue, the MN ASA director will not even return an email/phone call.

Before I turn this into a my daughter is above and beyond playing at her age, I know she has things to work on. She does some things very well, others need work. A little info on my DD:

She played at the 12A level last year as a 10u eligible and was arguably one of the better pitchers in the state. Our 12u team won our "A" level ASA state qualifier as well as the ASA state tournament. She is a big kid...right now at 11 years old she is 5'7" and 160 lbs. As a pitcher, she is good. Not great, good. She was just chosen as a Direct Select for the Midwest Region for the USSSA Futures game in FL in early August, and evaluated as the fastest pitcher in the 11 year old age group at the tryouts and top 15 in all age groups 10-14. If you need proof, the results are posted on the USSSA site. You can probably figure out who she is if you want to.

She has been playing dome ball vs 16u and 18u girls this winter and does just fine pitching against them. She has an older sister that plays at a high level of softball, so she is the product of being a big strong kid, that's been around softball for a while.

The problem I have is that there are no club teams that are willing to put her on a 14u roster because of the threat of ASA sanctioning against the team, basically banning them from any ASA sanctioned events (PGF is just starting to creep in here in MN)....Yes, it's been threatened.

Does anyone have any sort of idea in a course of action to try and push this issue? Playing 12u community travel ball for two more years is going to be awful. They are good kids but not one was a 12A player last year.

I'm not looking for affirmation where my DD is, just wondering if anyone has an idea of how to push allowing a 12u eligible to be able to play 14u.

Thanks in advance.

Back in the day, in the TC, MN, we were in your shoes. Exactly at the same point your in now.
Well almost. My DD was the best player on her 12U team. However, 14U had no elite teams, so our choice
was easy (play 2nd year of 12U). The next year, 14U club was here and we bolted to one of the new 14U club teams. In my estimation, Not playing 12U club level made no difference in the grand scheme.

We lived in Maple Grove and drove down to Rosemount where she played on a dome team all winter long.
They didn't have the amount of domes back then that are here now. Hence Rosemount, an hour drive, one way.
It's far more important to play year 'round. Domeball is informal and highly developmental. Most of the dome teams had the best TC players on their roster. They also mixed age groups occasionally.

If the same individuals are in charge of youth softball who ran back then, I really feel your pain. It's a money making endeavor for them.

 

[RAZORWEASEL]

Back in the day, in the TC, MN, we were in your shoes. Exactly at the same point your in now.
Well almost. My DD was the best player on her 12U team. However, 14U had no elite teams, so our choice
was easy (play 2nd year of 12U). The next year, 14U club was here and we bolted to one of the new 14U club teams. In my estimation, Not playing 12U club level made no difference in the grand scheme.

We lived in Maple Grove and drove down to Rosemount where she played on a dome team all winter long.
They didn't have the amount of domes back then that are here now. Hence Rosemount, an hour drive, one way.
It's far more important to play year 'round. Domeball is informal and highly developmental. Most of the dome teams had the best TC players on their roster. They also mixed age groups occasionally.

If the same individuals are in charge of youth softball who ran back then, I really feel your pain. It's a money making endeavor for them.

Thanks for the comment,

She does play dome ball in the off-season as well as travel basketball. She works out with the Midwest Speed program and all of their training during the week, thus the separation that is being seen between her and some of her peers.

Currently we drive from the far west metro to St. Louis Park twice a week, Blaine once a week, Coon Rapids twice a week, plus dome ball in either Stillwater, Rosemount, or Maple Grove...granted I have an older girl in the program as well, but yeah I feel the driving pain.

 

[29dad]

I see that the MMFL by-laws were updated in April. At first I thought the OP must have been mistaken because when my daughter first played club ball in MN at age 13, almost a third of the team were still 12U eligible, and none of them played community ball. And that was just four years ago. But here are the rules - and note that the MMFL pretty much governs ASA, USSSA, and NAFA in MN, so for all intents and purposes they have a total monopoly (for the time being - pretty sure PGF will enter the market soon):

8.04 PLAYER ELIGIBILITY

A. Any youth player is eligible to play for any team they wish per MMFL Softball Association By-Laws. They must meet the age qualification of each Minnesota Association. A player can only participate on one team within the same division of softball in championship play during the current year. (Recruiting players, who remain on a team that has not been eliminated from Championship play, will be considered a recruiting violation [unsportsmanlike conduct] and the manager/coach, player and/or team may be put on probation or suspended from MMFL competition for up to 5 years), A hearing for individuals and organization will be held to resolve any issues.

8.05 Age Groups

A. Age groups include 8U, 10U, 12U, 14U, 16U and 18U playing in MMFL Leagues.

B. Age groups are determined by each National Organization involve in MMFL play.

C. 14UA, 16UA and 18U are considered open ages and players can make up teams from either a community or multiple Communities for summer season play, Fall, or Dome Ball season.

D. 8U, 10U and 12U age group teams shall be community based for advancement to State and National play.

E. At 8U, 10U and 12U Teams can also be formed for dome ball play. The dome season starts the 3rd week of October. Up until that time players, parents, coaches. league, state and national organizations have requested that these age groups not be considered open. This is done to maintain the high level of teams in Minnesota and Western Wisconsin. The dome ball teams at these age groups can exist up until the 3rd Monday of April considered the Winter Dome Season. We realize some Dome seasons will start before or after these dates, teams can play in Dome games to begin or end a Dome ball season. Teams cannot continue to play outside of local Dome season, as the Dome season is considered playing inside of local domes as a learning experience. After this period the players must return to the community in which they live. Community teams are determined by city or school district and are approved by MMFL. No player is to be retained in any organization as a practice player after the 3rd Monday of April.

F. Any player that continues to play on a team that is considered open, as included section 8.04 this will be considered recruiting players, and a recruiting violation considered [unsportsmanlike conduct] and the manager/coach, player and/or team may be put on probation or suspended from MMFL competition for up to 5 years). If this is determined to be an organized rule violation, the entire organization that supports this behavior can result in all teams from the organization in violation, and the National Organizations can determine that no team can advance to State or National play from that organization. This is done to make all aware of violations and help stop these activities which are done by a few members of the organization involved in recruiting violations.

8.06 AGE GROUP ELIGIBILITY

A. In Minnesota MMFL recognizes NAFA, ASA, and USSSA

B. Players names cannot be removed or replaced once the player on the roster has participated in championship play. (We consider all Tournaments advancing to National)

 

[RAZORWEASEL]

You are correct in the monopoly statement...even to the point of 8.05 E the last sentence that states that no player can be retained as a practice player after the 3rd Monday of April.

The are really creating a bad system. I'm almost frustrated to the point of looking into if there is any legal action that could be started against MMFL/ASA.

Not one other sport, boys of girls has this kind of system. ASA OKC even said that it is a bad system, yet they are allowed to keep it in place. Brutal.

 

[Eric F]

Maybe I'm blind...Where does it say that a player can't play up?

 

[RAZORWEASEL]

Maybe I'm blind...Where does it say that a player can't play up?

It doesn't say it in those words, it says that it will penalize any team that rosters a 12u player on a 14u+ team. With PGF not yet being a permanent fixture here in MN, ASA is the route for a lot of tournaments. A ban would basically eliminate the ability to play in any ASA sanctioned tournaments.

The rule is in place for the teams, not the player.

 

[Eric F]

It doesn't say it in those words, it says that it will penalize any team that rosters a 12u player on a 14u+ team. With PGF not yet being a permanent fixture here in MN, ASA is the route for a lot of tournaments. A ban would basically eliminate the ability to play in any ASA sanctioned tournaments.

The rule is in place for the teams, not the player.

I'm still not seeing that in the rules posted by 29dad. Am I missing something, or it this restriction in a different rule section not posted here?

 

[catchermom13]

I'm still not seeing that in the rules posted by 29dad. Am I missing something, or it this restriction in a different rule section not posted here?

See section D. where it states 8U, 10U, and 12U are "community based" teams only - meaning, a 12U eligible girl cannot play on a travel ball team that has players from multiple communities. (In MN the more competitive travel teams are called "club" teams, and can only be formed at the 14U level and above). So, if you have a great 12U eligible player that wants to play competitive sb, her only choice right now in MN is to play up on a 14U or higher "community team", and that is only if the "community" or the coaches or board of that community allows it. And since by 14U the very competitive girls want to play at the "club" or "travel" level, there is not a ton of talent/competition left at the community level for these younger players. I hope this makes sense - maybe the other MN parents can clarify a little better. It is sort of a sad joke here

 

[DFP]

PM sent to you.

 

[Eric F]

See section D. where it states 8U, 10U, and 12U are "community based" teams only - meaning, a 12U eligible girl cannot play on a travel ball team that has players from multiple communities. (In MN the more competitive travel teams are called "club" teams, and can only be formed at the 14U level and above). So, if you have a great 12U eligible player that wants to play competitive sb, her only choice right now in MN is to play up on a 14U or higher "community team", and that is only if the "community" or the coaches or board of that community allows it. And since by 14U the very competitive girls want to play at the "club" or "travel" level, there is not a ton of talent/competition left at the community level for these younger players. I hope this makes sense - maybe the other MN parents can clarify a little better. It is sort of a sad joke here

Thanks. This is all pretty foreign to me. ASA in CA doesn't do things this way at all.