Any coaches in the Cincinnati area that teach I/R? I CANT FIND A SINGLE ONE!

[Adman]

[Emphasis mine]

If you don't teach a deliberate follow-through and just have the arm relax after the release, most of the time it will I/R naturally. As Hal said, it's normally a non-teach.

I'm no softball veteran, but I'm still not buying it. As an example: of my limited exposure through the last four years of rec ball with two DDs, I have seen only two instances of I/R happening naturally. Neither of them were my DDs. On my youngest's team, we made sure all had the chance to pitch at least once. None of them had any formal pitching lessons. ONE managed to "naturally" exhibit I/R. After warming up, I asked her to pitch to me as hard as she could...no instruction (she's nine). There it was! Came in fast and inside. She is a great little athlete. In her case it came "naturally". On my oldest's team I saw one of our players warming up with our then team's "pitching coach". She threw a couple of beautiful pitches with "natural" I/R. Her follow through did not finish to her throwing shoulder (Hello Elbow). This "pitching coach" then told her to instead finish her follow-through to her throwing shoulder and have her pivot foot walk through with the pitch. *Sigh*. She is also a very good athlete. She also did not continue to pitch after that day. I wished she would have.

I think for those people who are gifted athletically, yes, I/R can come naturally. They may be the ones that see early success despite anything that tries to be coached out of them. For the rest that want to succeed and will work hard, despite not being "gifted", they deserve a pitching coach that understands what happens mechanically during a high-level pitch. It doesn't matter what anyone calls it. I/R, elbow whip, "Forearm Fire™", etc. They have to UNDERSTAND it or else they can't teach it or spot it when it isn't there.

You have to know how to teach and understand a "non-teach".

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Ken B]

The problem isn't always if whip needs to taught, but also unteaching what's been taught by well meaning parents or coaches. "Straight arm, big circle," "keep the fingers behind the ball," "drive the hips hard." There's so much misinformation that get's perpetuated and hopefully, sites like this, updated youtube videos, DVD's and other resources will eventually help us get to the point where the good info becomes the norm.

 

[BoardMember]

SUPERFIN........As you've obviously observed, proper high level fastpitch mechanics is not something the comes naturally to more then 75% of the aspiring young pitcher in the world...........Anyone who tells you otherwise, is blowing smoke up your butt.........It seems you already know that. That is NOT to say it doesn't come naturally for some really gifted athletes.........Because it obviously does........

The world is FILLED with recreational level pitchers who NEVER get it.........In fact, I'd venture to say that the ratio of "natural pitchers" to the rest of the youth pitchers in the world is FAR NORTH of a 10,000-1 ratio, if you compare ALL KIDS who start out pitching and end up quitting, or in some other position............

So there you go...........SO MANY people live in such a small box it's almost pathetic sometimes.........

INternal rotation is fast becoming a well know fact, that so many people are now studying, it can ONLY serve to IMPROVE 1000's of kids who's dream it is to pitch, but have been blown off by comments like the one's you've heard here when they "don't get it".........

There are very prominant pitching coaches, including D1-2-3 and Even JC and NAIA college coaches are looking hard at the mechanics. Some very high level coaches are doing everything they can to learn about these mechanics far deeper then they ever have. Coaches and national level instructors are making videos and creating drills specifically addressing INternal rotation. And yes, they are referring to the motion as INternal Rotation..........Because THAT'S WHAT IT IS............

Teaching fastpitch, and especially mechanics that create optimum whip and spin, start with pre-motion/loading.........And continue in the arm circle to MAKE SURE that the upper body muscles/limbs are in the PROPER POSITION for optimum I/R delivery mechanics through release...........

So my friend..........YOU are on the right track to understanding what creates high level mechanics FOR YOUR DD.........And to ignore the knowledge and write it off, along with the MASSES of kids who don't/can't get it.........Is just PURE IGNORANCE, and is bordering on arrogance IMO...........

So KUDOS to you for recognizing that it is NOT natural for the MAJORITY of young kids who want to learn to pitch...........

Good luck in your search for a PC who, whether they UNDERSTAND IT OR NOT, but are teaching kids the RIGHT WAY to learn to throw the softball underhand..........

Just because they haven't gotten the words right yet........Doesn't mean they aren't inadvertantly teaching proper mechanics that promote I/R...........

 

[SUPERFIN]

I agree with 100 percent of that, but I am still amazed that local coaches still have no clue about this. It makes perfect sense to me. if every elite level player is doing it then why wouldn't it be gospel?

I have not observed anyone that is teaching anything similar yet, yes I understand that the verbage may be different but I promise you I am yet to see that. I have been doing most f it on my own, slow and steady starting with the locked elbo drill and I will progress from there. I also have noticed that the Japanese pitchers do this as well. I have discovered that nay time you bring this up people get a major attitude, I just spoke to a potential coach last night and I was explain this to him and he said " I don't know about that I have a girl I coached at Ohio State" I don't care about that. I just wanna know what your teaching!

The videos that you have posted on the drills. Would you say that is a good start as far as teaching the technique and/or will you be posting more? I have them saved in order on my desk top and I have reviewed them, I now feel comfortable teaching this, as I stated we are starting with the locked elbow.

BTW my daughter is 9 and she doesn't throw 60 mph!

Thanks for your post!

 

[SUPERFIN]

Doug Gillis gives lessons in Cincinnati twice a month. He has a waiting list though. They will pull from the waiting list if one of the regulars cant make it.

Bill Hillhouse gives lessons in Alliance, OH. You can find his scheduling info on his website.

thanks......

 

[SUPERFIN]

The Slingshot Pitch - Joan Joyce - YouTube


Another theory. Slingshot ! I would liken this to on old straight ahead ahead kicker in NFL explain why his method 30 years ago is better? Am I correct?

 

[BoardMember]

The Slingshot Pitch - Joan Joyce - YouTube

Another theory. Slingshot ! I would liken this to on old straight ahead ahead kicker in NFL explain why his method 30 years ago is better? Am I correct?

You are correct..........

The only reason Hal put up Joan's sling-shot clip is because you asked about it.........The Sling-shot is not a method taught any longer in the fastpitch arena. So don't waste any time on it.........Except to feed your thirst for history and knowledge of the evolution of the game..........

 

[halskinner]

I did not mention Joan Joyce nor did I put up a link to her video. I compared it to an MLB submarine wind up as they are exactly the same.

Joan Joyce is considered by most to be the best and most successful female softball pitcher in history. She used the windmill AND the slingshot wind ups. Instructors that teach the slingshot wind up are few and far between but it IS still being taught by instructors that used it in their pitching careers.

The slingshot can produce TREMENDOUS ball movement to many pitches. It is just as effective now as many years ago. I got see several man pitchers use it when I was young. They were just as fast and had every bit as much movement as the windmillers. I tried to learn it when I was young but never got comfortable with it. From my very limited attempts I believe it is much more difficult to learn than thbe windmill windup. I was also fortunate enough to see a few old timers using a variation of tyhat wind up that they called 'The softball submarine' wind up. That I learned and became very good at it. I taught it to all my students and they did extremely well with it along with the traditional windmill.

There are many different wind ups out there. Some are widely taught, some not so much. They can all be very successfully used by the pitchers that know them and use them.

 

[CoachFP]

Slingshot pitchers can be very good. They can come from down low with the rise ball and the drop can start low and bite down hard. Don't see them anymore. The ones I saw back in the day could throw well. It would be a gamble to teach it because if things go a little rocky the student and parent would blame it on that right away.

 

[halskinner]

I believe the wind mill wind up has been around longer than the submarine wind up / the sling shot wind up. The windmill some years before that. Before the wind mill full circle it was something else less that a full circle. So it would actually be what, around 70 years? They have been using bats pretty much for over 100 years or more in both baseball and softball and they still get the job done.