1st and 3rd situation question

[josh]

Are there lookback rules in youth levels of baseball? I never really understood why the rule is there at all. Defense/pitchers should be able to "take care of" baserunners without needing some unevenly-enforced rule....

To get the runners to commit and keep the game moving, otherwise the runner could just stand off the base, unlike baseball, the runners must be on the base before the pitch begins, they cannot leave early, but if we don't force them to go back to the base there cannot be any leaving early.

The point of the rule is to keep the game moving. They need to return so the game can continue. If the pitcher is not making a move they are saying they are ready to pitch so the runner needs to get to a base.

 

[MTR]

The point of the rule is to keep the game moving. They need to return so the game can continue. If the pitcher is not making a move they are saying they are ready to pitch so the runner needs to get to a base.

Actually, it can slow the game down. The rule needs to be dumped

 

[4 girl's dad]

Actually, it can slow the game down. The rule needs to be dumped

Curious why you think it slows the game down?

 

[MTR]

Curious why you think it slows the game down?

Slows the umpires down. They have to hold position to view runners and pitcher while partner(s) move back into position. After that, they can move to their next assigned position. Or you can run into the cat and mouse game which this was supposed to avoid, but if the pitcher makes a play-like move, it starts all over again.

My contention is the umpires should just be allowed to determine when all obvious play is complete, kill the ball and move on with the game. This is exactly what happens thousands of times a night in the SP game without incident. How often to you see a FP game get done quicker than a SP game?

And before someone raises the myth that the FP game is a live ball game, ask yourself what is permitted to occur between plays or pitches. The answer is absolutely nothing, the same that is allowed during a dead ball. So, why not just watch the action, determine when it is done (which is not at all difficult), kill the ball and move on with the game.

The only possible issue is the elimination of all the BS which is what the LBR was meant to do to begin. Only complaints will be from the coaches who think this is taking away from their game, which is just as much BS.

 

[josh]

My contention is the umpires should just be allowed to determine when all obvious play is complete, kill the ball and move on with the game. This is exactly what happens thousands of times a night in the SP game without incident. How often to you see a FP game get done quicker than a SP game?

I see your point, but I like the rule because it forces the runner to decide when the play is over rather than the umpire.

 

[YOCOACH]

I see your point, but I like the rule because it forces the runner and coaches to decide when the play is over rather than the umpire.

I fixed it for you considering they're the first ones to whine when the runners are called out for not returning immediately to base/making a decision or the play continues on and on due to the runner playing with the defense...depending upon which side you're on

 

[MTR]

I see your point, but I like the rule because it forces the runner to decide when the play is over rather than the umpire.

The rule exists specifically to take that decison away from the players and coaches. And just what do you think happened before there was an LBR?

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I see your point, but I like the rule because it forces the runner to decide when the play is over rather than the umpire.

The problems occur when the umpire see it different than the base runners (and or coaches). Since the umpires have the final say we end up parsing the LBR rule trying to determine everyone's intent.

The problem with MTR's solution is lazy umpires that will kill the play too soon. While this could be the perfect solution I don't have a lot of faith in the majority of umpires to get this right.

 

[Rocketech1]

Actually, it can slow the game down. The rule needs to be dumped

If it does slow the game down at all, it's more at the younger rec levels where the players are more inexperienced at both base running and the defense making plays on the base runners. In travel ball the past two years in 12u and 14u I can't remember a single circle violation or a coach arguing if their should have been one. The games move pretty quickly with regards to the LBR and base running, leadoffs, pickoff plays, steals. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[josh]

I have never seen a look back out called that was not pretty clear cut, either a runner was indecisive when the pitcher was otherwise ready, or attempting to draw a throw when there was a runner on third. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but the rule seems pretty clear, when the pitcher has the ball, get to a base.

The real whining I've seen is when the pitcher fakes a play and the runner changes direction and the defensive coach seems to think there should be a lookback violation. I forget which organization rules interpretation states that the purpose is not to generate cheap outs.

I am not saying there isn't an occasional issue, but it seems like overall it works ok.