Give Up The Fast Ball?

My just turned 13 year old has recently had a wake up call by being excused from the mound for 'illegal' pitching". In her first ever TB tournament t'boot.

We are working to develop a game plan to correct her mechanics. She does have a pitching coach with whom I am a little disappointed with but I'm not sure I can lay blame at their feet.

The biggest cause for my frustration (and my daughter's) is that 1 TB coach thinks teaching her the screwball will fix her tendency to side arm. The 2nd TB coach (who is supposed to be our "pitching" coach) worked with her the other day and though he did offer some helpful pointers, made a final statement that perhaps she should just 'give up' on pitching the fast ball and maybe learn and make the curve ball he mainstay pitch. He further went on to state that she doesn't really need the fast ball because lots of pitchers don't EVER use it.

My question to those of you in the know, does this statement hold water? I am a neophyte when it comes to pitching but my brain says that if my child can't correct poor mechanics on the very first, basic pitch almost every pitcher learns, how is moving on to another pitch going to help? And should we take his advice, what happens when my child gets to high school and they want to see her pitch a fastball?

Thanks in advance,

Frustrated and Confused.

I don't know any pitcher who solved her problems by not throwing the most basic of pitches. Whatever is causing her to be illegal will not be fixed by just changing her release. If you have a video to post maybe someone(s) will be able to offer you some suggestions.

Well, they're right and they're very very wrong.

It is true that at high levels, the fastball is rarely actually used in a game. This is because talented high level pitchers have full command of other pitches, and are able to hit pinpoint spots with their rise, drops, and/or curves.

HOWEVER! Simply "Changing pitches" to fix mechanical issues is absolutely the most wrong thing a "pitching coach" could ever say.

Your daughter is 13, so I'm assuming she's in 12u travel ball, where fastballs are quite common.

IF your daughter has mechanical issues, they need to be fixed for her fastball, as this will be the foundation for every other pitch. The best pitchers only alter the very end of the pitch at release to impart spin for a rise/drop/curve/screw so the rest of the pitch is largely the same.

My advice to you is to get her a real pitching instructor.

You can post a video here and we can give you some pointers on what to start with, or let us know where you live and perhaps someone can recommend an instructor to you.

Best of luck!

-W

She does have a pitching coach with whom I am a little disappointed with but I'm not sure I can lay blame at their feet. ... how is moving on to another pitch going to help?

Click to expand...

You are using logic and common sense when discussing softball. You must feel very, very out of place during the tournaments.

Your pitching coach is to blame. The "sidearm" problem is not unique to your DD (darling daughter). It is elementary that this is wrong, and she should never have developed the problem in the first place. If your DD is having trouble with this, I hate to think about the rest of your DD's motion.

BOTTOM LINE: Find a new pitching coach.

We can, and in fact, have, argued for hours over the relative value of "the fastball". Advanced pitchers don't throw many pure, non-moving fastball. But, given that your DD is sidearming the ball, I don't think she falls into the "advanced pitchers" category.

Get a real pitching coach and start from scratch. Sounds like DD doesn't have the basic windmill down.
Her 1st TB tourney tells me she just moved from rec ball where most umps don't know the pitching rules and/or won't call rec pitchers on illegal pitches. I'm surprised BOTH TB coaches didn't recognize this at try outs! Makes me wonder where their knowledge level truely is at. Did TB coaches just move up from rec ball too?
Get DD to an actual PC, encourage her with excitement and confidence. Perhaps even take the blame(by not researching what she was being taught) for her illegal form so she doesn't feel inept or unskillful.
A good PC should be able to wipe the table clean and start from scratch. Hopefully DD will be relieved/excited she finally will be learning "profesional" mechanics. Get yourself a comfortable bucket as I'm sure DD will turn into a work-a-holic! Have new PC tell you some specifics to watch for when practicing at home,
Good luck and please keep us posted with her progress.......I love reading posts about positive achievements

please fix it now. I had a pitcher come to me at age 14/15 with a solid 5 years of having her arm off the leg and halfway to side arm. we spent all winter trying to fix and unfortunately did not fix all the way. One of those frustrating pitchers who despite best effort could not change her motion. No so bad to be illegal but bad enough to cause control problems. and speed issues.

Thank you all for confirming that I am on the correct train of thought. This is comforting and empowering.

My DD didn't start to pitch with regularity until about 15 months ago. She's a very strong player (can move the ball with minimal effort) and prior to actually being considered on of the dedicated pitchers, was called upon to cover an inning here or there for several seasons, to just lob the balls across the plate. Because she was beginning to find herself on the pitching mound more and more, we did eventually find a PC. Our first PC was very good about breaking down the pitching stride into simple movements used as warm up drills that eventually built on one another. We stopped using this PC simply because we couldn't seem to get our schedules to mesh and irregular fees. There was a lull in instruction for a month or two and then we started with another PC who came to our league regularly. Though this new PC tends to lean towards teaching the stepping style she was willing to instruct my DD and not insist she switch from the Leap & Drag she had already worked so hard to learn. A few PC candidates before her were bound and determined to break her of using it and remold her to their style.

As you have surmised my DD has been playing LL since she was 7/8. These past few seasons she has been very successful pitching in LL. She throws strikes and that is all they are looking for. And yes, the the majority of the LL umpires don't catch much. I will not complain though because many of them are very dedicated volunteers.

We recently joined a TB team at the start of the year in anticipation for LL to peter out (as it tends to do as the girls get older) and because there was a desire to continue playing at a higher level of intensity which you rarely get in LL. Currently were are playing our last season in LL AND doing TB. It is basically a 6 day a week blur.

To be fair to the TB Manager/Coach, we originally came to the team knowing my DD would be the solid catcher they needed. It was understood that the team was neck deep in pitchers and my DD's talents were needed elsewhere. It just so happens that they had all the players who had experience pitching do some pitching during practices. I think because my DD is dynamic looking (because everyone else seems to Step Pitch) and she does throw strikes that he felt comfortable trying to pitch her here and there. He (and the other coaches) did notice her tendency to 'do a funky thing' with her wrist 'sometimes' but much of the time it is difficult to see her doing a side arm unless you are really looking for it or she makes it obvious.

Which is what happened when they let her pitch the first inning of our very first tourney less than a month ago. She saw several batters and was warned once there and then again here that she was doing something illegal, but honestly she had no idea why she was being called on it. (What the heck is this side arm thing you're talking about?) She was replaced by the next pitcher on the third infraction and just devastated. Since then I have been scouring the www looking for solutions (there are almost zero that cover side arm issues) until I stumbled upon this forum. I have also been taking lots of videos and been scouring through old videos and pictures I had taken from seasons past. I've also discussed my concerns with the PC and she has made changes to the content of the lesson the past 2 weeks.

I'm not sure I am quite ready to abandon the PC just yet. Another point of honesty here to lift some of the blame from them is that there is little actual pitching practice during the week. There are several legitimate reasons for this which I won't bore you with, suffice to say, the PC can only do so much with what they are being given. One of our biggest road blocks to practicing is having someone catch. I am a widowed Mom and used to catch in the early stages, but now as her speed has increased, I find the sting in the glove bother's my arthritic finger joints and I have vision issues when having to catch in low light due to years of working in the sun w/o eye protection. It doesn't help now either that my DD is very hesitant to pitch at me because she is afraid she will hurt me when I miss the ball.

My DD is very down on herself right now because she can't seem to make the corrections that need to be made. I've told her that it is not a lost cause, though hearing everyone discuss teaching her new pitches or giving up pitches (or pitching all together) has got to be either overwhelming or disheartening. Personally, I can see light at the end of the tunnel as LL will soon be over, giving us free time and the simple fact that going back to basics means that I can catch her because she won't (or shouldn't be) doing full pitches until she can alter her muscle memory. Correct?

She is also very worried that she may never get another opportunity to pitch again for the TB team but I've tried to impress upon her to be patient and dedicated to making the needed adjustments because if she were to pitch again in tourney and get called out, she may develop a reputation with the umpires who will then in turn always be watching her like a hawk. For now, she is an unknown. Does this thought hold water?

I'll be posting some videos and pictures in the next few days so that hopefully some of you may be able to offer some suggestions.

Thanks again!

WW,

It seems you are heading in the right direction. What you may want to think about doing is setting a next season or fall ball goal with your daughter. From your own admission there are circumstances that make it hard for her to practice. Once you have the circumstances taken care of on your end and your daughter has a chance to really work at pitching you'll see a change for the better. Anything else is not fair to her.

You say your eyesight is not the best. There are ways around that. Buy a net, pitching rubber and a bucket full of good balls. Have her pitch into the net. It's not ideal, but she can now throw the ball without fear of hurting you. You can still be there to help her. You'll probably find it easier to see what she is doing wrong because now you're not trying to catch the ball. You can still catch when she is doing drills. If you can get one of her teammates to catch for her that's even better. If not, then do what you need to do to help her.

Once you get some videos posted of her you should be able to get some helpful suggestions here. If you can post a side and rear view of her it helps make it easier to spot problems.

WW, what state are you in? Maybe we know someone that can help you. Also, when you post videos, it would help me to see your daughter's overhand throw a couple of times.

starsnuffer said:

It is true that at high levels, the fastball is rarely actually used in a game. This is because talented high level pitchers have full command of other pitches, and are able to hit pinpoint spots with their rise, drops, and/or curves.

-W

Click to expand...

While you hear this statement all of the time, I don't think it is all that true. Over the last several years I have heard interviews with winning pitchers after the game talking about their pitching selections during the game. Texas A&M pitcher Amanda Scarborough was touted by Michelle Smith on her screwball and her placing it and in the after game interview she said " I didn't use my best pitch today, my screwball, we just spotted the fastball and changed speeds. Ashley Boek from Washington after Wilson left with her my or the highway pitching style talked about creating angles with her fastball and spotting it and changing speeds. I was fortunate enough to see Nelson V Lawrie in the WCWS, Lawrie's ball moved ALOT, Nelson's drop was wicked and her screw was nothing more then an inside fastball thrown at an angle.

FWIW