- Oct 12, 2009
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Frame 51 is where the hitter stops worrying about holding the hinge angle and releases the bat head.
Physics take over from here.
What Is The Wrist Angle Position At Point Of Contact?
- Thread starter ThundersDad
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Frame 51 is where the hitter stops worrying about holding the hinge angle and releases the bat head.
Physics take over from here.
- Feb 17, 2009
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Chris, when my DD is where this girl is in frame 55, and that's the place that I'm asking about (frame 55), her bat is where this girls is in frame 53 or 54. That's in the swing to contact drill and hold. So she definitely is not releasing her hands enough.
- Oct 12, 2009
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Making contact while still at lag only once in while is just a sign of being late (and maybe bat drag).
If it happens a lot, it's usually a sign of a push disconnect, usually due to an old linear cue like push or throw the hands or take the knob to the ball.
P.S. While I'm sure this wasn't the intent (I assume the intent was to show a good swing), this picture in fact shows a push disconnect.
Notice how the front arm and barrel of the bat aren't in line at the POC.
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- Oct 12, 2009
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Here's another good example of alignment and whip.
Here's an example of a swing that isn't terrible but looks just a tad push-y.
Here's another swing that isn't quite right and is probably a bit push-y.
Here's an example of a swing that isn't terrible but looks just a tad push-y.
Here's another swing that isn't quite right and is probably a bit push-y.
- Feb 17, 2009
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So how do we practice getting the bat barrel in line with the front arm at the point of contact ? Thanks for the great pictures. My daughter probaly looks about like the little girl in the last picture.
Mankin was the first to explain "mechanically" how resistance to rotation of the body created by turning the bat between the hands early/prior to rotation/keeping hands at back shoulder as barrel is taken to ball by "rearward acceleration" was necessary to eliminate "drag" in the HLBB swing pattern.
pulling knob or pushing with top hand lowers resistance/lowers "connection"/increases disconnection so that torso turns ahead and bat is leftbehind/"lagging".
see from BATSPEED:
swing absolutes:
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
"And last, and probably the most important, if the batter's swing mechanics are efficient: (10) The bat will come to contact as the shoulders finish rotation. ---NOTE : The farther away from contact that bat is as the shoulders stop rotating, the weaker the swing."
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
Most batters develop ample hip and shoulder rotation during the swing. However, only a few have the transfer mechanics to keep the bat-head accelerating in sync with that body rotation. If the top-hand does not "create the correct resistance" (pulling back on the handle with the fingers), the bat-head's inertia will cause it to lag farther and farther behind shoulder rotation.
As the shoulders start to rotate, most hitters have the tendency to push forward with the palm of the top-hand. Pushing the top-hand forward on the handle does not cause the bat-head to accelerate rearward in sync with shoulder rotation. The batter winds up with the shoulders fully rotated, but the bat is lagging back 40 to 90 degrees from contact.
The first thing I look for while doing a video analysis of a student's swing is to see if the bat was brought to contact as shoulder rotation was depleted. This tells me how efficient their transfer mechanics are.
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
>>> NOTE : The farther away from contact that bat is as the shoulders stop rotating, the weaker the swing.
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I don't quite understand this comment. Could you please clarify. <<<
Hi mb
Professor Robert Adair states in his book ?The Physics of Baseball? (and I paraphrase) that it requires about 3 torque horsepower to hit a baseball 400 feet and that the arms can deliver about 1/3 horsepower. Therefore, the vast majority of the energy to generate bat speed comes from the large muscle groups in the legs and torso. Once the body ceases to rotate, only the arms are left to supply energy to the bat and they simply cannot generate great bat speed by themselves.
While doing Swing Review Analysis of player?s swings, I find that some players complete shoulder rotation but the bat is still dragging back near the lag position --30 to 60 degrees of displacement from contact. This is due to poor linkage to body rotation and inefficient application of torque at the handle. Correct linkage and torque provides more efficient transfer of the body?s energy into bat speed and the bat arrives closer to contact as shoulder rotation is depleted.
In a good swing, the rotating shoulders are suppling energy from initiation to contact. Swings that produce home runs in the 400 foot category will always have the bat at (or very near) contact as the shoulders finish rotation.
Jack Mankin
pulling knob or pushing with top hand lowers resistance/lowers "connection"/increases disconnection so that torso turns ahead and bat is leftbehind/"lagging".
see from BATSPEED:
swing absolutes:
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
"And last, and probably the most important, if the batter's swing mechanics are efficient: (10) The bat will come to contact as the shoulders finish rotation. ---NOTE : The farther away from contact that bat is as the shoulders stop rotating, the weaker the swing."
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
Most batters develop ample hip and shoulder rotation during the swing. However, only a few have the transfer mechanics to keep the bat-head accelerating in sync with that body rotation. If the top-hand does not "create the correct resistance" (pulling back on the handle with the fingers), the bat-head's inertia will cause it to lag farther and farther behind shoulder rotation.
As the shoulders start to rotate, most hitters have the tendency to push forward with the palm of the top-hand. Pushing the top-hand forward on the handle does not cause the bat-head to accelerate rearward in sync with shoulder rotation. The batter winds up with the shoulders fully rotated, but the bat is lagging back 40 to 90 degrees from contact.
The first thing I look for while doing a video analysis of a student's swing is to see if the bat was brought to contact as shoulder rotation was depleted. This tells me how efficient their transfer mechanics are.
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
>>> NOTE : The farther away from contact that bat is as the shoulders stop rotating, the weaker the swing.
********************************************************
I don't quite understand this comment. Could you please clarify. <<<
Hi mb
Professor Robert Adair states in his book ?The Physics of Baseball? (and I paraphrase) that it requires about 3 torque horsepower to hit a baseball 400 feet and that the arms can deliver about 1/3 horsepower. Therefore, the vast majority of the energy to generate bat speed comes from the large muscle groups in the legs and torso. Once the body ceases to rotate, only the arms are left to supply energy to the bat and they simply cannot generate great bat speed by themselves.
While doing Swing Review Analysis of player?s swings, I find that some players complete shoulder rotation but the bat is still dragging back near the lag position --30 to 60 degrees of displacement from contact. This is due to poor linkage to body rotation and inefficient application of torque at the handle. Correct linkage and torque provides more efficient transfer of the body?s energy into bat speed and the bat arrives closer to contact as shoulder rotation is depleted.
In a good swing, the rotating shoulders are suppling energy from initiation to contact. Swings that produce home runs in the 400 foot category will always have the bat at (or very near) contact as the shoulders finish rotation.
Jack Mankin
ThundersDad:
I have a girl on our team who does the same thing. She is left handed and hits everything to the left side. She "inside-outs" almost every ball she hits. The cause is due to her pushing her hands toward the pitcher as her hands turn the corner. It's very easy to duplicate at home. Just grab a bat and as your hands turn the corner, push your hands forward. The effect is that the barrel hugs the rear deltoid and releases way late. Pushing the hands forward like this compromises the hand pivot point.
IMO the solution lies with the information from Mankin that Tom posted. Your daughter is very likely slotting her rear elbow by simple ADduction. When a hitter slots the rear elbow by simple ADduction they have a built in push. It can't be avoided. I would recommend your daughter slot her rear elbow using a motion similar to how a middle infielder would turn a double play. The difference in the barrel path is night and day.
I have a girl on our team who does the same thing. She is left handed and hits everything to the left side. She "inside-outs" almost every ball she hits. The cause is due to her pushing her hands toward the pitcher as her hands turn the corner. It's very easy to duplicate at home. Just grab a bat and as your hands turn the corner, push your hands forward. The effect is that the barrel hugs the rear deltoid and releases way late. Pushing the hands forward like this compromises the hand pivot point.
IMO the solution lies with the information from Mankin that Tom posted. Your daughter is very likely slotting her rear elbow by simple ADduction. When a hitter slots the rear elbow by simple ADduction they have a built in push. It can't be avoided. I would recommend your daughter slot her rear elbow using a motion similar to how a middle infielder would turn a double play. The difference in the barrel path is night and day.
- Feb 17, 2009
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Wellpht, please explain the slotting of the rear elbow by ADuction to a simpleminded country boy. Do you mean she should be rotating her forearms to the right and then slot ?
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thunder -
This is a part of the swing that is very similar to the motion in a good overhand throw.
The rear arm action/sequence is the same in the swing up until GO. Wellphyt or FFS can point you to info that describes the overhand throw action in a way that allows for a good understanding of what needs to happen so you can better teach overhand throw and swing together.
In "slotting" of the elbow in hitting, the rear elbow starts down as the rear arm is externally rotated WITHOUT trying to actively lower ("slam") the elbow. The lowering happens due to range of motion limits in the back shoulder ball and socket joint that force the elbow to start down to permit EXternal rotation of the back arm/humerus.
The same action in overhand throw is described by the "cue" of "keeping the back elbow up".
In throwing, this is a "feel" cue that violates video reality becasue evn thoug you try to "keep the back elbow up" in the throw, it still starts to come down a little when the throwing hand starts up by EXternal rotation/laying back of the throwing arm. See Hodge info for more throwing details.
This is a part of the swing that is very similar to the motion in a good overhand throw.
The rear arm action/sequence is the same in the swing up until GO. Wellphyt or FFS can point you to info that describes the overhand throw action in a way that allows for a good understanding of what needs to happen so you can better teach overhand throw and swing together.
In "slotting" of the elbow in hitting, the rear elbow starts down as the rear arm is externally rotated WITHOUT trying to actively lower ("slam") the elbow. The lowering happens due to range of motion limits in the back shoulder ball and socket joint that force the elbow to start down to permit EXternal rotation of the back arm/humerus.
The same action in overhand throw is described by the "cue" of "keeping the back elbow up".
In throwing, this is a "feel" cue that violates video reality becasue evn thoug you try to "keep the back elbow up" in the throw, it still starts to come down a little when the throwing hand starts up by EXternal rotation/laying back of the throwing arm. See Hodge info for more throwing details.
Back elbow has come down a little visually/on surface video even though it FEELS like you are keeping it up:
Multi-million dollar mechanics
Multi-million dollar mechanics
