No advantage to leaping

[javasource]

Java I respect your opinion but disagree.

That's the great thing about this forum... no hard feelings here. I don't expect to convert you or your opinion... just that you keep your mind open to considering someone else's.

Why shouldn't people (players, fans, coaches) expect everyone to play by the rules?

That expectation is created once the PLAYERS decide to participate in organized/sanctioned sporting events. Is it necessary to have a community watch group on the sidelines... when there is already 'police' on the field?

I guess my questions... in response to this thought are:

What is the role of a parent at a sporting event?
What is the role of a parent at practice at home?
What is the role of a parent at practice on the field?
What is the role of the coach during practice/games?
What is the role of umpires during games?

Leave the advantage^disadvantage portion out and then all you have is a player breaking the rules and some wanting it enforced and some wanting it repealed.

I don't think it creates an advantage in any shape or form...

If someone is clearly breaking the rules then why should those that are pointing it be frowned upon?

If those that are pointing it out are coaches... in the proper way TO THE UMPIRE... or umpires of that game... perfect. They know their role(s).

If those that are pointing it out are not coaches or umpires in that game... you ever wonder WHY they are pointing it out?

Scenario #1
[Two cars on the expressway... one cuts in front of the other]
Good Samaritan [dressed in a bow-tie and checkered pants and sounds like Eddie Murphy impersonating a white dude]: "Excuse me, Sir... I followed you for the last 5 miles until you came to a stop to tell you something I'm very passionate about..."
Law Breaker [dressed in leather with a 5 o'clock shadow]: "What's that?"
Good Samaritan: "I just wanted to let you know that you didn't signal properly while switching lanes. I just thought I'd point that out in a peaceful and polite way... as I'm really concerned about your well being and safety in the coming years."

Scenario #2
[Two cars on the expressway... one cuts in front of the other]
Victimized Driver: "[Screaming and red-faced while giving the finger] {expletive] YOU, YOU {expletive, expletive, expletive}!!!!
Law Breaker: "What the hell is wrong with that dude. Settle down and mind your own business..."
Victimized Driver: "I'll show you, you SOB." [proceeds to drive maniacally and breaks the law trying to prove a point].

Seriously... you tell me... how many people fit the bill of scenario one in games? Are they complaining about a 'leap' because of their unbridled enthusiasm for the integrity of the game? No. They are complaining. They are the victim... their DD is a victim... and this world is just a miserable place to live in...

Everyone will have their own agenda as to why they want it called and regardless of that, it is still a player breaking a rule.

See above. Everyone who whines about it (ok... 99.9%) aren't doing it for any other reason than they feel like their kid is getting the short end of the stick.

Here's another consideration:

Ever watch the 'immaculate reception'? Was that a catch? And... at the end of the day... what difference does it make what WE think... the officials called it as they saw it. Nothing... and I mean nothing is going to change this event. But you can bet there are still Raiders fans complaining about it... Point being, it's nothing that you as A SPECTATOR, COACH, FAN, etc... could change. So... do you go to every game looking for the next reason to complain... or do you enjoy the game for what it is... a game?

Better yet... go home and work with your kid or students if they've issues with leaping. This is the opportunity to fix it.. NOT during games.

To me it makes no difference really, if a girl can bring it faster by pitching illegally I think it is better for my girls to see faster pitching. However, if my pitcher says that the other girl is pitching illegal and is looking for me to uphold the standards of the game, I am not going to let her down. (Yes, this has happened, the ump did call it, and everything was right in my pitchers softball world) I won't make a big show of it but I will raise it the the ump.

Ok... you're a coach. I get it. You did the right thing. However... if that was my player, I'd say, "Stop complaining. Focus on yourself and what you can do to help your team win." That's just how I roll...

To me the people that really are the whiners are the ones that entered the game and decided they were not going to follow all the rules and try to get by with their mechanics, THEN complain about the people that object to them breaking the rules!! Regardless of the reasons if it is a rule it should be called.

I'm sure this happens in the sneaky world of softball... ... but as a coach... who are you managing? Your players or the other teams players?

Teams I've coached have never, ever lost because illegal pitching created an unfair advantage. It just doesn't happen. However... I have seen many teams lose... because they forget about what they are there to do (play softball) and instead get caught up in what other people are doing.

 

[Madsdad]

Will someone please explain why they are leaping if it does not create some type of advantage? I keep thinking that if this weren't the case, a good coach would tell them that they are slowing themselves down and insist that they pitch in a manner which is going to benefit them as a player. I really don't need to hear anything about a sore toe either. At some point these woman learned how to leap for a reason and I don't think it was because they wanted to throw slower to give hitters a better chance at hitting the ball. My guess is that it is a result of a very powerful drive which is not hurting them but helping which is why they don't go back.
It may not be an advantage on paper but at the end of the day something must be gained or it would not done by so many high level players.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I think if you would try to pitch you would see why it is so hard to keep daylight away from under your rear foot. When the mind says jump the legs immediately think that if they remain in contact with the ground that they have failed miserably at their job and will get a stern talking to from the brain. I really think it is this simple, telling your foot to remain in contact after you just told it to push as hard as it can is just a weird thing to ask of that particular body par and for some they can't rewire. I do not think it is laziness I think it is a really stubborn thing to fix for some. I absolutely do not think it is an advantage or every NPF pitcher would do it since it is legal there.

 

[riseball]

The question of advantage while interesting is a moot point. Leaping is illegal and will be until the rule is changed. Saying it makes no difference is the same BS argument that people use for rolling a bat. "It is no different than what happens after 500 hits." True, but none the less it is illegal. You either play by the rules or you don't. Reminds me of the guys who talk about their great round of golf and then about how they did it with only 3 mulligans. You either play it straight up or you don't. If you don't that is up to you. But don't put your accomplishments or those of a leaping pitcher next to someone who plays by the rules. There are lots of stupid and antiquated rules and laws out there. Unfortunately you do not get to pick and choose.

 

[4 girl's dad]

I think if you would try to pitch you would see why it is so hard to keep daylight away from under your rear foot. When the mind says jump the legs immediately think that if they remain in contact with the ground that they have failed miserably at their job and will get a stern talking to from the brain. I really think it is this simple, telling your foot to remain in contact after you just told it to push as hard as it can is just a weird thing to ask of that particular body par and for some they can't rewire. I do not think it is laziness I think it is a really stubborn thing to fix for some. I absolutely do not think it is an advantage or every NPF pitcher would do it since it is legal there.

I have been trying to teach myself to pitch. I'm 42. I've just started to get some good ones across the plate. I get it.

But the rules state the drive foot must remain in contact with the ground. It's been a rule a long time. It's an IP and needs to be called as such.

 

[JJsqueeze]

RB- you always struck me as the sort that broke a few stupid rules.

I will readily admit that I routinely run a certain rural red
light near my house. It stays red for about 6 hours with no traffic for miles. I also frequently go about 8 mph above the speed limit. I have also put in a retaining wall that was 8 inches higher than I should have without a permit.

I guess I am just an outlaw.

 

[sluggers]

Riseball and the others: *READ*.

We are *NOT* saying that the rule should be ignored. We are saying, "Get rid of the rule."

The rule accomplishes nothing other than create incredible inconsistent enforcement. If the rules isn't going to be consistently enforced, then the rule should be dropped.

And, get real...with a two umpire system, the rule is *NEVER* going to be correctly enforced.

The only place to see the leap is from 1B. As soon as a runner is at 1B, the umpire moves down to 2nd. The ump can't see the leap from 2B.

 

[riseball]

RB- you always struck me as the sort that broke a few stupid rules.

I will readily admit that I routinely run a certain rural red
light near my house. It stays red for about 6 hours with no traffic for miles. I also frequently go about 8 mph above the speed limit. I have also put in a retaining wall that was 8 inches higher than I should have without a permit.

I guess I am just an outlaw.

Right there with ya.

Got to make a left turn off a 4 lane road to get to my house. Can't stand waiting late at night early in morning when there are no headlights for a mile. Use to stop and go until they put in that damn camera.

DD is 300 miles each way along I-75 and I-10. Speed limit is 70 and I usually go 80 weather and traffic permitting.

When I get caught I suck it up and pay the price. I don't say it doesn't make sense. I don't complain that they do not catch everyone.

If you leap it is what it is - illegal. You get caught and you pay the price. No excuses, no BS about you can't. If you are a pitcher and they start calling you for IP's you get your toe in the dirt or ride the pine.

 

[riseball]

Riseball and the others: *READ*.

We are *NOT* saying that the rule should be ignored. We are saying, "Get rid of the rule."

The rule accomplishes nothing other than create incredible inconsistent enforcement. If the rules isn't going to be consistently enforced, then the rule should be dropped.

And, get real...with a two umpire system, the rule is *NEVER* going to be correctly enforced.

The only place to see the leap is from 1B. As soon as a runner is at 1B, the umpire moves down to 2nd. The ump can't see the leap from 2B.

I agree that the rule needs to go. However, inability to properly enforce it is NOT a compelling reason. We really do not want to go down that road.

In a two man system if I have a runner on 1st, I can put down a SAC bunt have the runner cut 2nd base by 5 feet to expedite her arrival at 3rd. IF the umpires are doing their job they will never see it. The opposing coach must appeal and the umpires did not see squat. So do we change the rule and make going to 2nd base optional?

Then there is the consistency with the strike zone...

 

[00fpdaddy]

Right there with ya.

Got to make a left turn off a 4 lane road to get to my house. Can't stand waiting late at night early in morning when there are no headlights for a mile. Use to stop and go until they put in that damn camera.

DD is 300 miles each way along I-75 and I-10. Speed limit is 70 and I usually go 80 weather and traffic permitting.

When I get caught I suck it up and pay the price. I don't say it doesn't make sense. I don't complain that they do not catch everyone.

If you leap it is what it is - illegal. You get caught and you pay the price. No excuses, no BS about you can't. If you are a pitcher and they start calling you for IP's you get your toe in the dirt or ride the pine.

Or get a toe flap like the Cal pitcher.