Coaching them the right way

[vcackerman]

So this weekend, we were in a round robin that we hosted. We were in the middle of a great 10U ball game. Great pitching, great defense - everything you'd like. We were winning 5-4 and the ump looked over and mouthed 1 minute left. The opponent had runners on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs. I could have played the clock game to end it but decided to let my team fight for the final out. We got beat on a line drive to the gap but I wouldn't change a thing. The team fought until the end and we just came up short. The other team got us on a great hit.

 

[TorontoCFE]

I saw a team once (designated home) behind 1 run with 2 outs no runners on base in the bottom of thier lineup with time winding down in a "No new" timed game. The batter stepped up, took 1 pitch and then was instructed by her coach to walk back into the dugout for out #3 and started a new inning with a minute left. They ended up battling back and won the game and then championship in the next game

I guess if the other team was smart, the pitcher would have just stood there and not thrown the single pitch.

A team my daughter guested on took the lead in the bottom of an inning in a drop dead game. With time running out
and 2 on, the coach had both runners step off the base early and then the batter swung at 3 pitches so that the score wouldn't revert. 3 outs in maybe 30 seconds.

Our team has a policy of not stalling or speeding up any game. Whatever happens, happens.
The HC wants the girls relying on themselves and not the coaches. I can only think of one time, where we had a weak batter up and would have been better served by getting out on purpose so that there would be another inning with the top of the order up, where it might have hurt.

Our girls do notice when other teams manipulate the game. They take it that the other team or at least their coach, is afraid of them and thinks they can't win on their own merits. We've seen teams start stalling in the second inning, already setting things up to minimize the opportunities we get to hit off their 2 or 3 pitchers.

I'd be curious on where people draw the line - what would you not do to influence the game?

 

[canyonjoe]

I wouldn't tell a kid to strike out on purpose, but would say take 2 pitches to slow game down. Not a fan of changing pitchers or unproductive mound conferences. I've actually seen them backfire several time.

Drop dead games are just stupid unless it's a showcase or a friendly.

The suggestion I've heard is to set a 1 more inning time limit. After x minutes we play 1 more inning. I'm sure there might be some posturing at the end of the x time to limit one more inning, I think it's more like a real game when you know this is it.

It was actually fun this spring when we were able to play 3 7 inning games because the teams played so well.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Maybe your average, daddy-dreamer team ought to be run exactly how most seem to be run anyway, in which case, yes, there's supporting evidence for what you're putting forward.

But this particular team has designs on qualifying for PGF and/or ASA Nationals where there is no time limit in bracket play. I'm not saying that the coach made a conscious choice to get the game to the 7th inning. Obviously, if the batter gets a hit in that situation and the clock expires, it's not like he's going to say "Aw, sorry - I really hoped our girls would be able to play 7 today", but neither did he take away the opportunity for that batter to do her job in that position.

I'm not trying to speak for him, but speaking as a fellow coach, I greatly appreciate the value of allowing the players to play and hold the belief that this experience in a meaningless fall tournament may pay some benefit to them in future summer games on a much larger stage.

When we travel 8 hours, at a cost of 1000's of dollars, to play.............then yes..........we are playing to win. If the girls or the coaching staff didn't care about winning, we wouldn't spend countless hours training and mucho money in this sport. We were lucky to have a staff of former collegiate players, even though we were a bunch a "daddies"..........it was never a "daddy-dreamer" team.

I'm the nicest guy you'll ever meet, I've played against a few member's teams here on DFP. I don't cheat, all my players play legally ( especially pitchers ). But when a game designed to be full innings, adapts to a clock, that CLOCK becomes part of the strategy. If we are down a run, my least productive player is up and we need to go to another inning to get to the heart of the order, I'm getting that other inning. The opposite if we're ahead. I'm not going to be a duche and try to stall 5 mins, but a few seconds...........absolutely.

By Sunday, the girls are tired, pitching might be worn. If I can shave an inning off in 100 degree weather, I'm doing it.

 

[TorontoCFE]

Here is a more specific question that occurred to me.

We have a rival team we see often and we play in a league with inning limits on the pitchers.
They have one dominant pitcher and very weak pitchers behind her. We have 2 above average but not dominant pitchers.
We had played them several times very recently and in each game, they had had a lead (usually small but once large) until their dominant pitcher had to be lifted.
In every case, we then pounded the other pitchers until we won. All 12 kids on our team could confidently hit or walk against their
other pitchers.

At the final meeting in the championships, the league had a rule that that game was 7 innings with no time limit but either coach could opt out and play time instead. Obviously, they opted out on the assumption that their ace could get them to the time limit and they would likely have at least a one run lead with no need to expose their other pitchers.

Given that people here feel it is ok to alter the pace of play if there is a time limit because it is an abomination, would you be ok with choosing to play with one if it greatly increased your chance to win?

 

[Sweet Lou]

Given that people here feel it is ok to alter the pace of play if there is a time limit because it is an abomination, would you be ok with choosing to play with one if it greatly increased your chance to win?

If given the choice, I will always choose innings over time. Regardless of which gave my team the better chance to win.

But your league needs to man up (or woman up!) and take that decision out of the hands of coaches and just say championship game is not timed.

 

[Bchbum54]

A team my daughter guested on took the lead in the bottom of an inning in a drop dead game. With time running out
and 2 on, the coach had both runners step off the base early and then the batter swung at 3 pitches so that the score wouldn't revert. 3 outs in maybe 30 seconds.

Thats too funny

So this weekend, we were in a round robin that we hosted. We were in the middle of a great 10U ball game. Great pitching, great defense - everything you'd like. We were winning 5-4 and the ump looked over and mouthed 1 minute left. The opponent had runners on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs. I could have played the clock game to end it but decided to let my team fight for the final out. We got beat on a line drive to the gap but I wouldn't change a thing. The team fought until the end and we just came up short. The other team got us on a great hit.

Friendly games and round robin games are different then Tournament games IMO

When we travel 8 hours, at a cost of 1000's of dollars, to play.............then yes..........we are playing to win

I agree.

 

[Lobster Birch]

Is there someone not playing to win?

 

[riseball]

Is there someone not playing to win?

In showcases I am not necessarily playing to win. I am playing to get my players recruited. If that means I start tubing drop balls to get grounders to my SS who is being looked at then I do it. If it means that some runs score I really do not care. Same with pool play on Saturday. I may be giving a pitcher some circle time and it may cost a win. But I learned a long time ago that after the first pitch on Sunday what you did on Saturday is meaningless.

 

[softballphreak]

Would full 5-inning games be preferable to time-limited 7-inning games?