What are reasonable expectations in college?

[Scl1991]

My daughter has been offered a spot at a mid level DI. She's a 2013. Great school, great education. Daughter has done an overnight, likes everything. The coach has a larger roster and is getting it down but it will still be bigger than ideal when my daughter gets there. The coach was very upfront- wants my daughter but it may be hard for any freshman or sophomore to be an impact player. The coach stated that playing time is earned but that with the natural growth/experience of the older players, the younger players may have a harder time earning playing time.
So: is the coach trying to discourage my kid or just being upfront? Reasonably, do freshman and sophomores frequently come in as impact players, or is this a pretty typical situation (not playing as much)? Does anybody have any advice or experience with that type of a situation?
For me, as a parent, the education opportunity is awesome and I think that's the big pro here. But I'm not the one that would have to work hard and maybe ride the bench. I'm trying not to offer my two cents so that I don't pressure her, but I want to be as informed as possible if she asks....

 

[marriard]

Being upfront would be my guess.

Look through the current roster and any NLI's. How many of them are directly going to be competing for the same positions on the field as your DD. Are they playing now? How have they played when given the opportunity? Who will be a Junior/Senior when your daughter enrolls.

Also look at the current team - how much time are the upperclass players getting compared to freshman and sophomores. The freshman and sophomores - if any are playing what kind of positions are they playing? If this matches up with what the coach has said you have a pretty good idea that they are being upfront.

Lastly look at how many players transfer out of the program or leave the program without completing all four years.

Every coach is different. Every player brings something different to the table. I don't think there is anything 'typical'

And of course you also have to weigh it against every other opportunity that might come your way. Good luck with that.

 

[Steve Huff]

Scl1991, I think things have changed a little since I coached DI. The roster sizes seem to be very big. We carried 15-16 girls on the team if we had a walk-on worth developing. Now it seems they are carrying more. This makes it tougher for you daughter, but there is not way to know how she stacks up. My instincts are that she is being honest. However, did she offer any scholarship? Tuition/room and board/books and fees? A typical scholarship girl will get a half rise unless a pitcher, catcher, often a SS, or impact hitter. Because the scholarships were increased from 11 when I was coaching to 12, that means often there will be 2 more girls on the rosters. And they will typically NOT BE a pitcher or catcher with no future.

The girls should have been doing practices or playing. What did she say about it? With 16 girls, that left 13 position players with 3 pitchers. Two were catchers. That leaves 11 for 7 positions. Some of the pitchers could play other positions, or a catcher could play first. Those options makes it more difficult. Ask your daughter if she observed this also?

Now lastly, if the education is what her goal is, then I wouldn't grind my teeth too much. That is what she is there for. But I think you would like to know what to expect. If she is offered money, there is a plan at some time for her to play. If not, then essentially no mater how many conversations you have had, she is a walk-on. You can pm me privately and tell me the school and I will try to help as best I can.

 

[Scl1991]

We had heard long ago that this school had no more money for 2013, and they do not. But DD is lucky enough to not have to make her decision on money. She would be a recruited walk on, and according to coach, would have all rights and opportunities as any other player. They stressed this in oerson, on the phone and during her overnight visit. She is being recruited as a utility player-this coach said she is recruiting utility players as much as possible.

 

[Steve Huff]

We had heard long ago that this school had no more money for 2013, and they do not. But DD is lucky enough to not have to make her decision on money. She would be a recruited walk on, and according to coach, would have all rights and opportunities as any other player. They stressed this in oerson, on the phone and during her overnight visit. She is being recruited as a utility player-this coach said she is recruiting utility players as much as possible.

Ok, well that helps. I think she is being honest. She has given her word. It sounds to me like she has some players bunched up. Like they had some issues and recruited a big incoming class one year bigger than usual. Now there is not only a numbers bubble, but a money bubble. It would be interesting to see what this coach does for 2014. These things do happen because of various issues including disciplinary and transfers, etc.

Now let me say this also. Utility players typically, is what you recruit with walk-ons. That includes pinch runners, or fill in players for injuries etc. And utility players unless they are very good offensively do not get paid very much. That is a value issue. But you are also lucky in that it doesn't apply to you financially. I had a girl I coached for one year in Travel Ball whose HS had just picked up fastpitch that year. So after 1 year I told her to walk on at our University. But she needed money and left the program in the fall. I was pretty sad about it. I am glad your daughter is in a different boat.

 

[Scl1991]

Steve, I do think some of it is a bubble issue. The coach is somewhat new to the program and is trying to get a team in place. Brought in many freshan this year. As far as my kid and utility, specific defensive positions were mentioned for my daughter- it wasn't just vague, and the coach also likes my kid's bat-she hits.
But again- its a great opportunity but hard to really weigh out because it's the first offer. Just happens to be from a really good school. But in your opinion, domany freshman have to pay there dues, so to speak? Or should we look for a situation with more initial playing time? Although who knows how things will ever work out. Her travel coach, who is very experienced in the college world, is just telling her to do what her heart tells her to do, but feels sure she'll get several more offers so DD shouldn't feel pressured. it's just that academically, this is what we've always preached: go for the academics and let softball help you get the best education possible. But t the same time, it's her deem to play ball too. We want her to be happy.

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve, I do think some of it is a bubble issue. The coach is somewhat new to the program and is trying to get a team in place. Brought in many freshan this year. As far as my kid and utility, specific defensive positions were mentioned for my daughter- it wasn't just vague, and the coach also likes my kid's bat-she hits.
But again- its a great opportunity but hard to really weigh out because it's the first offer. Just happens to be from a really good school. But in your opinion, domany freshman have to pay there dues, so to speak? Or should we look for a situation with more initial playing time? Although who knows how things will ever work out. Her travel coach, who is very experienced in the college world, is just telling her to do what her heart tells her to do, but feels sure she'll get several more offers so DD shouldn't feel pressured. it's just that academically, this is what we've always preached: go for the academics and let softball help you get the best education possible. But t the same time, it's her deem to play ball too. We want her to be happy.

Well the way I look at it is that there is no pot on the stove! If money was involved it would be first come first serve, but there isn't! I think she has time to seek other options. But then I think her education should weigh heavily in her decision. I don't see a lot unnatural here, but to tell you the truth, when a coach throws money into one group, she usually ends up with the same problem down the road over and over again. In other words there are 4, sometimes 5 years players participate. They can red-shirt! So that money should be spread over 4 years. If you have 12 full scholarships, you will normally have things spread out IDEALLY (which never works out) as 3 scholarships per year. That would be divided into F (full) and P (partials) each of 4 years: 2F/2P, 1F/4P, 2F/2P, 1F/4P
That spreads the money and the strength out over all four years. So that would be my goal as it would prevent money bubbles and steady growth. And yes there are exceptions which arise. But putting out too much money in the first year pretty much creates your 4 year destiny your first year coaching. In simple terms, you blow all your shopping money on the first day of the sale.

 

[sluggers]

Scl1991, you've got to get realistic about this. You and your DD are looking at college softball through rose colored glasses.

The coach is paid to win. If she doesn't win, she gets fired. So, you have to realize that the coach's priorities are winning, winning and winning.

Playing D1 ball isn't a hobby your kid is going to do a couple of hours a day three days a week. It is a job, requiring 3 to 5 hours a day, *SIX* days a week, for 10 months out of the year. There is no "off-season". Your DD should plan on getting up every day at 6AM or earlier. (My DD had to be in the weigh room at 6AM.)

Additionally, when she plays away games, she will miss classes for all day Friday. She will get back Sunday at 6PM or 8PM.

Playing D1 is a job. And, it will absolutely play havoc with her class schedule. Her grades will definitely suffer, and she will not be able to graduate in 4 years.

If your DD was going to make $20K a year in scholarship money, it *MIGHT* be worth it. But, she isn't.

If money isn't a problem, find a D3 school with a good softball program. (For example, Wisconsin-Whitewater or DePauw). Your DD will get a lot of playing time, she will have a great time playing softball and get a great education.