Two scenarios from today:

[quincy]

I think #2 is easy, umpire got it right.

#1 I find interesting, I think it falls into you needed to be there. Coach is gone but when or if the play should be stopped am not sure.

The ump needs to use thier best judgment at this point, leaning towards the defense.

 

[Cannonball]

All in all, I think the Umpires had a very good weekend in this tournament. For example, ball hit to OF. OF touches ball but does not control it. Runner on 3B tags up and takes off after touch of OF glove. This is pretty common. Coach had ball thrown to 3B arguing that ball was not secure and so, runner left early. Umpire called runner safe since once the player touched that ball, the runner can leave. A few days ago, we had a thread where it was mentioned about player going into the game where she was not on the roster. This happened in the Women's bracket. The lady that hit, hit a home run and man was the other team mad. At one point, BB was walking by and was asked to pinch hit. She said no. I saw one Umpiring calling illegal pitches all weekend and he was not popular. He was right when I saw him call it one game. Girl stepping onto the rubber with her hand in the glove and then taking the ball out and taking a sign.

 

[corlay]

Scenario #1
Fielder puts hands up as she runs out for ball. She reaches down and pulls ball out and shows it. Umpire is on the run out but does not signal ball out of play.

OF must raise hand if ball rolls under and is trapped under fence or rolls all the way through.
BUT if OF raised hand, and then picks of ball, that is still a live ball if no Ump has yet signaled otherwise.

The correct play for OF is to raise their hand and simply wait for ump to signal dead ball and ground rule double.
NEVER touch or retrieve the ball until play is dead.

 

[spleen1015]

All in all, I think the Umpires had a very good weekend in this tournament. For example, ball hit to OF. OF touches ball but does not control it. Runner on 3B tags up and takes off after touch of OF glove. This is pretty common. Coach had ball thrown to 3B arguing that ball was not secure and so, runner left early. Umpire called runner safe since once the player touched that ball, the runner can leave. A few days ago, we had a thread where it was mentioned about player going into the game where she was not on the roster. This happened in the Women's bracket. The lady that hit, hit a home run and man was the other team mad. At one point, BB was walking by and was asked to pinch hit. She said no. I saw one Umpiring calling illegal pitches all weekend and he was not popular. He was right when I saw him call it one game. Girl stepping onto the rubber with her hand in the glove and then taking the ball out and taking a sign.

DD was in this situation a few weeks ago. She was stepping on the mound and bringing her hands together at the same time. The umpire never called an illegal pitch. He just kept telling her to step back off the mound. She didn't know what the problem was. First time I've ever seen it called and I leaned something.

 

[Cannonball]

I'm glad you learned something. Believe it or not, it can be a hard habit to break.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Runner on 1st with two outs. Ball hit to the out field on a line and it hits the portable fence at or near the bottom of the fence. Fielder puts hands up as she runs out for ball. She reaches down and pulls ball out and shows it.

At this point shouldn't an immediate dead ball be called by the umpire stopping all play till they check the ball? The player picking up the ball should be irrelevant to the dead ball call since the fielder raised her hands to indicated the ball is in blocked ball territory. Can/should the player be penalized for USC? The umpire awards the bases they feel the runners would have reached without the USC? If the player does not signal for the ball being in blocked ball territory the ball should remain live. To me the act of the player raising her hands immediately kills the play.

Runners on 1st, 2nd and 3rd with one out. Line drive deep and diving catch. Runner at 1st does not tag up. Runner at 2nd and 3rd do. OF jumps in and throws the ball back in fast. Everyone on defense is screaming 1st. Runners from 3rd easily scores. Runner that was on 2nd briefly stops at 3rd but then takes off for home. Runner on 1st gets into run down but never retouches 1st base. Infielders do not touch 1st. Other runners have scored before the out at first is recorded when the defensive 2B tags runner. Coach is yelling runs do not count since runner at 1st did not tag up and out of that runner is 3rd out of inning. Now, does it matter? Again, this got heated even though the Umpire did an outstanding job of trying to explain it.

The 3rd out at 1st is an appeal play which is a timing play. Any runs that score before the 3rd out is made count. It was not a force play on the 3rd out.

Had the that happen once with the DD's HS team. Trailing runner did not tag. Runner from 3rd scored. Defensive team made the appeal at 2nd and the runner was called out for the 3rd out of the inning. The run counted.

 

[Comp]

At this point shouldn't an immediate dead ball be called by the umpire stopping all play till they check the ball? The player picking up the ball should be irrelevant to the dead ball call since the fielder raised her hands to indicated the ball is in blocked ball territory. Can/should the player be penalized for USC? The umpire awards the bases they feel the runners would have reached without the USC? If the player does not signal for the ball being in blocked ball territory the ball should remain live. To me the act of the player raising her hands immediately kills the play.

There is no way for an umpire to tell if the ball just barely went under a temporary fence from 200' away. And, the player raising their hands means absolutely nothing, just a signal to the umpires something has happened. Only the umpire can call the ball dead, and without them being able to verify the ball went out of play leaving it live was correct. Based on the description of the play, the player raised the hands and before the umpire could ever do anything reached for and picked up the ball. So, how far under the fence could it have been? If it went under the fence, leave the ball alone.

 

[Cannonball]

There is no way for an umpire to tell if the ball just barely went under a temporary fence from 200' away. And, the player raising their hands means absolutely nothing, just a signal to the umpires something has happened. Only the umpire can call the ball dead, and without them being able to verify the ball went out of play leaving it live was correct. Based on the description of the play, the player raised the hands and before the umpire could ever do anything reached for and picked up the ball. So, how far under the fence could it have been? If it went under the fence, leave the ball alone.

Not only this but this is communicated to both coaching staffs before the game.

 

[Sparky Guy]

There is no way for an umpire to tell if the ball just barely went under a temporary fence from 200' away. And, the player raising their hands means absolutely nothing, just a signal to the umpires something has happened.

I understand the umpire does not have a close up view of the ball. That is why the "hands up" signal is in place. Pretty much every pregame meeting at the plate I've ever been in, the umpires will instruct the coaches to have the outfielders signal if the ball goes under, bounces over or goes through a temporary fence and they will stop the play and come out to verify it is out of play and then award bases.

I have always been under the assumption that once a player raises her hands it is a signal to the umpires the ball is not playable. The umpires stop the play and go out to verify the ball is unplayable because of those instructions. Are these guys using incorrect mechanics?

Again, in the OP the player signaled and then picked up the ball creating a really confusing situation. I know a lot of it is HTBT, but what is the best thing for an umpire to do in that situation? The reason I ask is I can see coaches having their OF raise their hands for an instant with the hope the runners will stop running and then pick the ball up and get it in trying to nail a confused runner.

 

[Cannonball]

A player does not have the ability to stop play in this manner. The signal is to call the Umpire out to see what has transpired. Think of it, there are so many things that a player could do if that Umpire was not there to see first hand what happened. For example, a ball at the bottom of the fence, bases loaded, the fielder raises the hands and grabs the ball knowing that they could never throw the runner from 1st out at home but now, there is a chance the Umpire gives that runner 3rd instead of scoring. The player violated their instructions when they grabbed the ball. That meeting says they are not to touch that ball until the Umpire gets there to see the ball. In the case I described, the Umpire was headed out, had not viewed the ball and so, that ball is in play. JMHO!

I'll wait to see with the real Umpires have to say.