Tee to live swings, mentan or mechanical?

[Mike]

"Any of the problems we SEE in a swing (w/ the naked eye) are almost always precipitated by upstream problems which are causal in nature. VERY few problems develo late in a swing. Almost always, what we see later in the swing is merely a manifestation.

And the fact is, most "fixes" treat symptoms, not causes.

Regards,

Scott"

I agree with this. My daughters, new 11 and new 12, have been practicing over the winter with there HI, and with the help here have made good progress OFF OF A TEE, and some progress off front toss. Live pitching and pitching machine not so much. They instantly revert to old habits, I cant get them to grasp the thought of swing at the moving ball the same way you would swing at the tee. I am considering going to half swings at live pitching because when we do it as a drill there mechanics are still intact, the hope is to build the launch to contact muscle memory and worry about the rest later. For some reason when they know they are stopping at contact, there mechanics hold together. Right know contact swings will net them better results than full swings. There current full swing at live pitching is not going to cut it in games. Is this mental or mechanical?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Mike]

sorry the post topic should say Mental, not Mentan. I couldn't change it in the Edit.

 

[StacieM]

One thing to remember is that it takes a long time to break a habit. If they've been doing something a certain way for a while over and over and over and over again...when you put the body in a situation where all it has time to do is react (like with a live pitcher) it will likely revert to the movement that has become "habit" (usually the "old swing"). In the other drills when they have more time to think about what their body is going to do and prepare for that, they can do it. So it sounds like the "new swing" has not yet replaced the "old one" as what the body is used to a familiar with in situations where there's only time to react. Typically, it takes some time to change that.

 

[Wellphyt]

Epstein quotes a study that states it takes 1500 repetitions to replace old habits with new ones. I found that to be about right with my daughter. Also, IMO the goal for 11 and 12 year olds should not be to look like Puljols or Bustos. The goal should be to get the girls into the correct pattern/ follow the correct blueprint. Once they start following the correct blueprint, then you can begin to gradually tighten things up over a period of years. Hitting is an endless work in progress.

I think you will find that 11 and 12 years who are close to the correct blueprint, will do fine at their age level.

My daughter just changed how she gets her hands flat. We started with a few hundred dry swings. When the girls are first learning a new movement I really like slow motion swings. When I feel like they are starting to get it I let them speed up. But, I always have them intersperse slow motion swings with full speed swings. We then progressed onto Tee swings. My goal is to get them to wiffle balls or front toss (not soft toss) as quickly as possible. Now that we are doing front toss, I am not looking for Pujols perfection. I am looking for the blueprint. Does she have a negative move? Is she getting her hands flat correctly? Are her hips leading? Are her hands staying relatively connected to her rear shoulder? Is she demonstrating some hip thrust and weight transfer? Is her follow thu acceptable for her age given the strength of her arms and wrist? Is she balanced throughout the entire swing? Does she look comfortable?

 

[Mike]

Wellphyt,

They look pretty good off of a tee, but goes away with live pitching. Realistically they just need many more reps, I agree about the 1500 reps, maybe more. I am going to encourage them to not swing so hard when they face live pitching. In practice we will start with slow dry swings, to faster swings, tee work, and so on. As soon as the mechanics break down I will know to go back and start again. The season is right around the corner but I will sacrifice the occasional hard hit for better form and mechanics. Hopefully the hard hits will come in time.

Mike

 

[Wellphyt]

Wellphyt,

They look pretty good off of a tee, but goes away with live pitching. Realistically they just need many more reps, I agree about the 1500 reps, maybe more. I am going to encourage them to not swing so hard when they face live pitching. In practice we will start with slow dry swings, to faster swings, tee work, and so on. As soon as the mechanics break down I will know to go back and start again. The season is right around the corner but I will sacrifice the occasional hard hit for better form and mechanics. Hopefully the hard hits will come in time.

Mike

I forgot to mention that the 1500 reps should be done in a condensed time frame. IMO, 150 swings per night, every night for 10 to 14 nights should get them close. Let them use a Swift Stik or lighter bat. A 30 inch minus 13 bat works good at that age for dry swings.

I wouldn't sweat the game swings. Once they get into the box, they will do whatever they're comfortable doing. My bet is that they'll surprise you.

I agree it's a good idea to go back to dry swings if the mechanics break down too much.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Let them use a Swift Stik or lighter bat. A 30 inch minus 13 bat works good at that age for dry swings.

If you use a Swift Stik or bat that's too light (or too heavy), then the pattern won't carry over.

 

[Wellphyt]

If you use a Swift Stik or bat that's too light (or too heavy), then the pattern won't carry over.

I think you raise a valid point. I just use common sense. As the girls get better following the blueprint it makes sense to start working in their game bat. I think it's a good idea to take the first 10 or 15 swings of the night with the game bat starting around the 5th night. Then gradually add in more swings with the game bat. At some point they need to get used to swinging their game bat.

 

[Hitter]

If you use a Swift Stik or bat that's too light (or too heavy), then the pattern won't carry over.

Chris and Mike

I agree with super slow motion as we use it at clinics and call it the matrix drill and use our game bat and hit soft balls.

We have been through the balance, grip and incorporated tracking skills using the tee.

We use caution tape attached to the net and the tee and have them dry swing and keep the bat on the plane of the pitch and measure their big zone.

There is a home plate under the caution tape and the tape represents a ball coming down the middle of the plate. When the bat enters the tape or plane of the pitch we attach a spring loaded clothes pin and then how long can they keep the sweet spot of the bat on the plane of the pitch? When the bat leaves the tape we attach another clothes pin and the distance between the clothes pins is measured and that is our big zone.

Next we go to the tee. We explain if they have seen the movie matrix, it is super slow motion and demo what it looks like. Slow to load, soft to step on a flexed front knee on the inside edge of the lead foot and the hands separate at or during toe touch. We also explain you can walk away from the hands as that is how some actually do it and it is based on the hitters athleticism.

We use the hand path device as a visual of hands inside the ball and explain how the shoulders must turn so the knob of the bat can lead the elbows and then at bat lag stop and look at hand position, hand over the elbow and lined up or what we say staying strong on the back side and have them look down at their feet and repeat and then when they have the concept just hit the ball hard enough and straight ahead.

We want them to see it and feel it and fix it!

They will find it difficult as they have no momentum until they pick up the pace of the swing and we allow for each person to find when the pace should pick up.

We just did a clinic in Warren Pa. and the parents thought we should be hitting balls off the tee full blast and by the end of the day they understood why we were trying to slow them down and give them a program by which to practice and correct the swing.

Let the hitter pick up the pace when they feel it and make sure they have a target to hit at so they know the process is working.

At clinics we want them to take home a plan to practice with so they are not just swinging and hitting a ball without a purpose when doing drill work.

Thanks Howard

 

[Mike]

If I am being honest it all comes down to the amount of swings they take a week, notice I said a week and not a night. Basketball, vollyball, fishing, hunting, etc..... I'll have a talk with them about it and see if we can find some more time to hit. I don't want to burn them out. The 11 yo pitches 3 nights a week on top of team practice. I guess we have to find our own happy medium.

Thanks,
Mike