Substitutions / Batting out of order

[whatsup]

Hitting teams Coach reports a substitution, sub coming in to bat for a player in the original lineup. When her turn at bat comes up, the original player comes up to bat instead of the sub.

Checking that my understanding is correct:

1) At any point during the at bat, before a fair batted ball, strikeout or walk the Coach could:

a) Replace the original player with the proper batter... count remains; or
b) Notify the umpire the original player has reentered.
​

2) After a fairly batted ball, strikeout, walk or HBP but before the next pitch:

a) The defensive team can report the batting out of order. The affect would be?
b) Prior to that can the hitting team Coach indicate there was an unreported reentry?
​

3) If the defensive team doesn't say anything, after the next pitch?

a) Is it assumed to be an unreported reentry?
b) Which batter is supposed to be up?
c) If nothing is said, don't say anything and have the sub bat in the right place the next time through the order?
​

4) In the event the original player is batting and is hit by the first pitch. Can the hitting teams coach report the original player reentered or put the sub in for the original player?

Besides those questions:

At what point does the substitution actually occur? Once you tell the umpire? If a mistake is made can it be corrected a) before the next pitch, or b) before the at bat occurs?

 

[KCPhoto]

I'm not an umpire, but I believe this is not batting out of order. It's an unreported substitution that has no penalty, even if the original player went up to bat by mistake.

 

[Comp]

Depending on rule set unreported subs do have penalties. What rule set was game under?

 

[whatsup]

Assume ASA rules

 

[MTR]

Not BOO, but unreported substitute

1) At any point during the at bat, before a fair batted ball, strikeout or walk the Coach could:

a) Replace the original player with the proper batter... count remains; or
b) Notify the umpire the original player has reentered.
​

Original player officially re-enters with no penalty and assumes the existing count

2) After a fairly batted ball, strikeout, walk or HBP but before the next pitch:

a) The defensive team can report the batting out of order. The affect would be?
b) Prior to that can the hitting team Coach indicate there was an unreported reentry?
​

The US is officially re-entered into the game and declared out. Any outs executed on the play remain and all other runners return to the base held at the TOP

3) If the defensive team doesn't say anything, after the next pitch?

a) Is it assumed to be an unreported reentry?
b) Which batter is supposed to be up?
c) If nothing is said, don't say anything and have the sub bat in the right place the next time through the order?
​

If the defensive team does not protest, there is nothing the umpire can do.

4) In the event the original player is batting and is hit by the first pitch. Can the hitting teams coach report the original player reentered or put the sub in for the original player?

Same as answer to #2

Besides those questions:

At what point does the substitution actually occur? Once you tell the umpire? If a mistake is made can it be corrected a) before the next pitch, or b) before the at bat occurs?

A substitution is official when the umpire accepts the change.

 

[whatsup]

Thanks MTR. I don't mean to be dense but I'm still not clear on a few things:

1) Is it correct that once a pitch has been thrown to the original player (who is mistakenly batting for the sub) that the ship has sailed... there is no way to "correct" that and have the intended sub bat except by reentering the original player and then reentering the sub)?

2) If this is essentially an unreported sub, then I'm confused about the treatment as BOO? If the "status" of the original player, when batting, is that of an "unreported sub" then why does the timing of the discovery or reporting matter? If they get on base, why doesn't informing the umpire of the unreported sub prevent being subject to the play being treated as BOO?

3) What's the effect (on defense or offense) of when you inform the umpire of a previously unreported substitution? Is the substitution considered to have taken affect at the time you inform the umpire or when the substitution actually occurred?

 

[MTR]

Thanks MTR. I don't mean to be dense but I'm still not clear on a few things:

1) Is it correct that once a pitch has been thrown to the original player (who is mistakenly batting for the sub) that the ship has sailed... there is no way to "correct" that and have the intended sub bat except by reentering the original player and then reentering the sub)?

By rule, as noted the US is officially entered into the game when discovered prior to the batter completing their turn at bat.

2) If this is essentially an unreported sub, then I'm confused about the treatment as BOO? If the "status" of the original player, when batting, is that of an "unreported sub" then why does the timing of the discovery or reporting matter?

There is no BOO in any of the scenarios you offered. It matters because that is the way the rules are set up. Now, if you want to go back to the way it used to be, the US would ALWAYS be DQ'd and all the assignments of outs would be the same.

3) What's the effect (on defense or offense) of when you inform the umpire of a previously unreported substitution? Is the substitution considered to have taken affect at the time you inform the umpire or when the substitution actually occurred?

All substitutions occurs when it is reported to and accepted by the umpire. Same with a US as indicated in the rule.

 

[whatsup]

Guess I should have cracked the book open once you (and others) indicated it was an unreported substitution and not batting out of order. Rule 4, Section 6 spells it all out just as you've explained above. Thanks for the help!

 

[BretMan]

Batting out of order only applies when a batter bats in a spot in the line up that they've not entitled to (for instance, the batter scheduled to bat third bats second).

This sub (albeit an unreported sub) is entitled, even required actually, to bat in the order that they were in fact batting.