Starting a TB team for social reasons

[Momo'sDad]

1st-year 12u, 2 separate issues

I've already said "I told you so" but hope I end up being proven wrong.

For those of you who live in highly competitive softball areas, what's the typical rate of success for friends & family comp teams (one town, no tryouts, no cuts)?

I believe in the value of friendships, but I also believe in helping young ball players follow a reasonable progression into comp ball that is more about the players and less about the parents. For example, a 10yo doesn't go from rec ball into the starting rotation of a 12u A team unless she's dominant, but a short-sighted, selfish coach who's a good salesman might make the parents think otherwise.

Am i wrong for saying that a PITCHER (did not make the all-star rotation) should not skip 2nd-year 10u just because a 12u coach wants her bat?

 

[crystlemc]

A 2nd year 10u should stay in 10u to get that confidence that comes with being the big fish. Especially as a pitcher. That confidence in invaluable.

 

[fastpitch]

question1. i'm sorry. i dont understand the reason for starting a team strictly for social reasons. arent there rec teams already for that? in my experience travel softball gives some girls their closest friends and some parents their worst enemies.

question 2. if the parents and the 10u eligible girl doesn't need to pitch; then playing at 12u if she can hit and play the field should be ok in my opinion. if she needs to pitch to be happy and she wont be able to pitch on other teams; then she should stay 10u.

 

[BrianMonk]

Friend/Local team - It depends on what you measure as success and for how long? What I’ve experienced is, inevitably, a player (or more) will want to play at a more competitive level. Other kids (or parents) won’t. Sometimes there’s a split within the coaching staff on staying competitive vs. playing time distribution. Trying to get 11 or 12 families all on the same page from the same small town is tough in the long term.

If you measure success by having all the kids stay together and grow from say 12’s to 16’s, odds are not in your favor. That’s really for most teams since not everyone has the same goals and/or aspirations year after year.

If you measure success by have a core group (6-7) of kids stay together and over the years lose and pick up a few each year, that’s possible.

However, don’t be surprised if there end up being some hard feelings between the local team family members. It happens often.

For the Pitcher/Player question – that problem has been around forever. There are a lot of kids that want to pitch. Too many IMO. At that age, the family should help their daughter decide what she feels is best. There isn’t a right/wrong answer. If her primary priority right now is to pitch, stay down. If it’s something she doesn’t mind giving up while playing on a better team to benefit her other skills, play up. Only they can answer that Q.

 

[PA SB Dad]

question1. i'm sorry. i dont understand the reason for starting a team strictly for social reasons. arent there rec teams already for that? in my experience travel softball gives some girls their closest friends and some parents their worst enemies.

Ditto!

Starting a team for "social reasons" to keep friends together works out fine for a year or two but it never works out in the long run. You will always have parents who think little Susie deserves to be on a better team to showcase her talents. As the team gets older, there will always be pressure to find better players to replace the weaker ones "who are holding the team back", even if those players are not from the initial social circle or even the same town.

In terms of a 10U girl playing up, if she will pitch at 12U and can field and hit, no problem. If she will not pitch at 12U, and she wants to be a pitcher, playing up that year will not help her develop as much as pitching the extra year at 10U. I've seen 10U's sit A LOT on 12U teams - I've never understood why they would rather watch 12Us play rather than PLAY with other 10Us.

 

[starsnuffer]

Kids succeed in spite of parents and coaches, not because of it. Good coaching and parenting just help smooth out the bumps. Not every kid is cut out to be successful at everything.

So to answer your questions:

1) Rate of success? Depends on how you qualify success. Keeping the team together for 1 season? 3 seasons? Producing players who secure positions on better teams the next season? Trophies? Need more information here.

2) Every kid is unique. Can't answer this question based on the data provided. 10u players aren't pitchers, shortstops, outfielders, ect, they're just 9 and 10 year old kids. Daddy paying for pitching lessons doesn't make a kid a pitcher, hard work, practice, swagger, and skill make a kid a pitcher. Moving her up or keeping her down has nothing to do with the position her parents think she should play.

-W

 

[sluggers]

For those of you who live in highly competitive softball areas, what's the typical rate of success for friends & family comp teams (one town, no tryouts, no cuts)?

I'm not sure how you define "success". If you mean, "How long do these teams last?" In Chicagoland, they might make it through one season, but rarely two.

The problem is that once a group of parents and kids see travel ball, then they start gravitating to teams that make more sense for them. So, the initial bunch of kids will quickly fragment.

 

[Momo'sDad]

I know what you're saying, Starsnuffer, but they like for her to pitch and she wants to pitch. If she wasn't a pitcher and was only interested in playing other positions, there really would be no issue. I would still think that she deserved a chance to be a 10u star, but there is nothing at all wrong with a player giving that up to remain with her older friends. The coach told the family she will pitch on the team, but speaking respectfully, I did tell the coach that he was possibly compromising the player's long-term development. The coach did not even use her as a pitcher on the summer rec all-star team. That is not an indictment of the coaches' decision or the player's ability, I am only providing context.

She's a good player and has a great family and if you were building a team, you would want them even though she's a year younger than the rest. If she were an incoming 1st-year 10u and this was an upcoming 2nd-year 10u team, again, no argument. 12u is different.

The goal is to keep 10 or possibly 11 girls together for 2 years, but I know how competitive 1 of the coaches is. He says he's fine with taking beatings the 1st year, but expects the roster to be the same and the team to be very competitive in A ball by the 2nd year.

It's because we are good friends that I wanted to share perspective with them in the first place. I had agreed to let my DD play for them January through March next year, but then he changed his mind and demanded a full year commitment, which we will not do. I don't want this idea not to work, but I believe they should have taken the 4-5 best girls and then built a team around them. That may not be nice to say, but I see these things break up within a few months all the time and I don't want any of the other relationships to be compromised because of this.

I think it's best for my family's friendships with all the others not to go down that road at this time.

 

[starsnuffer]

I hear you.

Here's the thing. You say that the team expects to take its beatings. I'm sure that the coaches and some of the parents and players understand this. However, my experience has taught me that the little things that would not normally bother parents and players are amplified 10x when the team is loosing more then it is winning. That means that the logical coach would understand this and plan for attrition. It is not prudent to actually plan for all 10 or 11 kids to remain on this team for the long haul. Many coaches will actually plan for this, and create a "core" group of girls that they try to coach and maintain while finding additional girls to support the core. Parents of the support girls often get very frustrated with this, because the coach will play his "core group" in the same positions more often despite any allowances for merit. Believe it or not, coaches don't do this just be be jerks or because it's their kid, it's actually part of their plan (although some coaches are just jerks and play daddyball).

So, since you're the parent of one kid, its in your best interest to figure out what's in your daughters best interest, and make your decisions from that perspective. Step back from the "team" for a moment, and consider your child. What does she want? What are her goals? Does she care what position she plays? Does she want to be a pitcher in 2 years?

I think you're trying to read too much into what this coach and this team are doing and trying to read a crystal ball, when your focus should be on just one kid. Softball is a small world, you'll see the other families again and continue your relationship with them no matter what team your kid plays on.

-W

 

[sluggers]

He says he's fine with taking beatings the 1st year, but expects the roster to be the same and the team to be very competitive in A ball by the 2nd year.

My story: I helped start an organization that is now the largest softball organization in Illinois. When we started, we had four teams. We were drawing from a community of 150,000. It took three years before the 12U team qualified for the NSA nationals.

The first and second years were disasters. The first year we won probably less than 15 games. The second year, we were about .500. The third year we qualified for the NSA tournament, but we were not "very competitive" at 12U in the 3rd year.

We didn't win a tournament. In the elimination tournaments, we were usually out early. A couple of times we would be in the top 8. We got hot one tournament, which happened to be the NSA qualifier where the top 4 teams got bids.

It was probably two more years before we consistently fielded a "very competitive" team.