Pop up times

[Easton33]

Catching Math

1) The runner cannot leave the base until the ball leaves the pitchers hand.

2) A pitch thrown at 55mph takes less than .5 seconds to reach the catcher (1st pop).

3) Catcher throws and gets ball to 2nd base in 1.6 seconds (2nd pop).

4) .5 + 1.6 = 2.1 so runner must cover 60 feet in less than 2.1 seconds in order to be safe.


Something does not quite add up.

#2 can not be taken into consideration when doing pop times. Pop time is the time it hits the catchers glove to the time it hits the fielder at 2nd. Basically #3 is your pop time.

 

[riseball]

#2 is wrong and should not be involved. Pop time is the time it hits the catchers glove to the time it hits the fielder at 2nd. Basically #3 is your pop time.

My post was not about the calculation of pop times. Rather it was about the time it takes for the ball to arrive at the base during a base stealing scenario. Time of flight of the pitch + pop time = time it takes ball to get to base. With a true 1.6 pop time the fastest runners in the game would be several steps away from the base when the ball arrives. I have yet to see this happen in an actual game scenario which leads me to the conclusion that many of the pop times claimed are far from what happens on game day. Which brings the value of pop times into alignment with radar grandpa pitching speeds. Maybe we need a stopwatch grandpa video?

 

[Lenski]

The actions of the MI are moot unless the ball is in centerfield when the runner gets to the bag. Otherwise the throw is too late. And why a fastball for a strike? I can see maybe not using a rise up in the zone. But why not a drop ball low in the zone? We teach our runners to look for something headed low in the zone preferably to the glove side of the catcher. The know that unless the situation dictates a hold they are "green on a down ball."

Pop time ares valuable tool only in the context of a single session. Comparing catchers times from different settings is simply not possible because there are no accepted standards for measurement. As such these times are by and large discounted by college coaches. You may have noticed that over the past couple of years college showcases have abandoned home to first times in favor of a timed 60 yard sprint. Even then there is no accepted standard for when to start the watch. Do you yell go or do you start it on the athletes first movement? The difference can be significant.

My post pertained to an optimal situation to get a "true" best pop to pop time for a catcher in a game situation, nothing more. Concerning the MI, you're stating the obvious. I was just adding to GM's post.

 

[Easton33]

My post was not about the calculation of pop times. Rather it was about the time it takes for the ball to arrive at the base during a base stealing scenario. Time of flight of the pitch + pop time = time it takes ball to get to base. With a true 1.6 pop time the fastest runners in the game would be several steps away from the base when the ball arrives. I have yet to see this happen in an actual game scenario which leads me to the conclusion that many of the pop times claimed are far from what happens on game day. Which brings the value of pop times into alignment with radar grandpa pitching speeds. Maybe we need a stopwatch grandpa video?

Yep my bad. Took your post out of context. Carry on!

 

[Bartow12]

#2 is wrong and should not be involved. Pop time is the time it hits the catchers glove to the time it hits the fielder at 2nd. Basically #3 is your pop time.

Correct, it is glove to glove pitch does not matter other than it needs to be easy to handle. I think I was once told that pop of the catchers mitt to transfer to throw is between 2 and 3 tenths on average. Overhand velocity of 65 MPH on the throw is about 1.3 sec for the 85 feet to the glove. That is where the time comes from. 3 things change pop times. Accuracy, velocity and transfer.

 

[riseball]

More like .9 seconds. Biggest area for improvement is in the transfer. You cannot throw fast enough to make up for a poor transfer.

 

[DRDRODD]

Correct, it is glove to glove pitch does not matter other than it needs to be easy to handle. I think I was once told that pop of the catchers mitt to transfer to throw is between 2 and 3 tenths on average. Overhand velocity of 65 MPH on the throw is about 1.3 sec for the 85 feet to the glove. That is where the time comes from. 3 things change pop times. Accuracy, velocity and transfer.

At 65 mph the ball travels 95ft/sec which would reach second base around .9 seconds. I somewhat remember reading an article by Jay Weaver stating that the fastest transfer time (from catch to release) that he has ever recorded was around the .40+/- second time frame if this time was the fastest that he ever recorded after recording thousands of catchers I believe the average transfer time would be much higher.

Edited to add

Ave release times for High School players would be under .85 down to .78, good would be .78 down to .70, and excellent would be .69 down to .65. Below .65 is very fast for HS. For the College players in my database the average release times would be under .78 down to .70, good would be .70 down to .65, and excellent would be .65 down to .59. Below .59 is really moving. Fastest release I have ever timed at any age is a 14yr old that throws in the .49-.52 range. He is just amazing.

From the NECC website

 

[Rambler34]

More like .9 seconds. Biggest area for improvement is in the transfer. You cannot throw fast enough to make up for a poor transfer.

100% agree. My DD's has a great arm for her age so from release to 2B her throws always "looked" good but she only threw out about 25% of the girls that attempted to steal. She started lessons and on top of normal catching fundamentals her instructor focused on her transfer/release. He made her so much more efficient getting rid of the ball and it paid major dividends. In very unscientific timing she went from averaging about .8 or so down to between .59-.62 for her release. After a couple of months she was getting 80% of the attempts out and teams that had seen her ran less.

 

[DRDRODD]

100% agree. My DD's has a great arm for her age so from release to 2B her throws always "looked" good but she only threw out about 25% of the girls that attempted to steal. She started lessons and on top of normal catching fundamentals her instructor focused on her transfer/release. He made her so much more efficient getting rid of the ball and it paid major dividends. In very unscientific timing she went from averaging about .8 or so down to between .59-.62 for her release. After a couple of months she was getting 80% of the attempts out and teams that had seen her ran less.

Rambler what would you say took the longest for your DD to get, was it the top half or the bottom half? I would love for my DD to cut down on her possession time of the ball. I find she does fairly well with her feet work but the ball transfer and pull back seems to give her the most trouble.

 

[Rambler34]

Rambler what would you say took the longest for your DD to get, was it the top half or the bottom half? I would love for my DD to cut down on her possession time of the ball. I find she does fairly well with her feet work but the ball transfer and pull back seems to give her the most trouble.

The top half was the biggest struggle. She had a habit of dropping the ball low and causing a big arm circle and threw like she was in the outfield. She did a ton of work on receiving and going straight to the ear. She would do bucket after bucket just catching and going to the ear, popping up and tossing the ball aside.