Pitcher’s circle umpire question

[Suzanne74]

We were in a game today with 1 ump. Middle of the inning with 1 out, our pitcher walked a batter and now there are baserunners on 1 and 2. The catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher in the circle, turns and requests a timeout and starts walking toward the circle. The girl who slightly rounded 2 went back to 2 on the throw. The girl walking to one stops on the base. Right as she is getting to the circle, the ump yells out “I never agreed to your time out request” and so catcher is confused starts walking back to request again and now the base runners who are both standing on 1 and 2 take off for 2 and 3. Our pitcher is still holding onto the ball on the mound, in the circle.

Our coach asks if the umpire saw the ball in the circle. He acknowledged that he did but said there was no timeout. Our coach said even with no time out, the runners can not step off the bases and advance with the ball clearly in the circle.The ump said without a timeout, they are free to advance.

What am I missing? Clearly our catcher didn’t get a clear yes on the timeout. Why he waited until she was almost at the circle to announce it, I don’t know. But still, her error. But how are the baserunners who also thought there was a timeout and just standing on the bases allowed to advance?

 

[flash277]

Apparently you must of had a baseball umpire who didn't know softball rules. If the pitcher has the ball in the circle and the runners are standing on the bases, they cannot leave those bases, timeout or not. Some people get confused with look back rule, but as an umpire, it is one of the simplest rules to enforce. Mind you, in a one umpire game, it's hard to see runners leaving early when the pitcher is about to release the ball, but what you discribed, it was a no brainer. You had a bad umpire.

One thing he got right is there is no time out unless the umpire actually grants it, so don't expect one just because you call for one.

 

[Suzanne74]

Like I said we didn’t expect the time out. The umpire is a fastpitch ump. We have had him multiple times in the last 2 years. He umps for the same travel organization. I just couldn’t find anything in the rule book on it and our coaches don’t argue. They just asked if he saw the ball in the circle and he said yes, but since we messed up on waiting for the time out, the girls were allowed to advance. We only had one umpIre, so nothing is going to change by arguing. He gave the runners 2 and 3. Didn’t grant the time out when she requested the second time (he said nope, play ball) and we played on.

 

[flash277]

Well if it's just a league game or bracket, play on, but if it was a playoff game, your coach could of definitely filed a protest, and win it.

 

[mmeece]

We were in a game today with 1 ump. Middle of the inning with 1 out, our pitcher walked a batter and now there are baserunners on 1 and 2. The catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher in the circle, turns and requests a timeout and starts walking toward the circle. The girl who slightly rounded 2 went back to 2 on the throw. The girl walking to one stops on the base. Right as she is getting to the circle, the ump yells out “I never agreed to your time out request” and so catcher is confused starts walking back to request again and now the base runners who are both standing on 1 and 2 take off for 2 and 3. Our pitcher is still holding onto the ball on the mound, in the circle.

Our coach asks if the umpire saw the ball in the circle. He acknowledged that he did but said there was no timeout. Our coach said even with no time out, the runners can not step off the bases and advance with the ball clearly in the circle.The ump said without a timeout, they are free to advance.

What am I missing? Clearly our catcher didn’t get a clear yes on the timeout. Why he waited until she was almost at the circle to announce it, I don’t know. But still, her error. But how are the baserunners who also thought there was a timeout and just standing on the bases allowed to advance?

Clear Look back rule violation. Shouldn't even be a question. You can only have one out in this case, but the other runner would go back to her base. I have even seen a team use something like this as a trick play in order to try and draw a look back out.

 

[EdLovrich]

Not much to add, yes LBR violation. No, time was not out, it should not be granted until the BR advances to 1B and stops (this ensures she can try to advance if she chooses). However, if C or coach or anyone requests time from me in this situation, I simply tell them, "Not until the runner reaches first" They understand right away what the situation is and once the BR stops at the bag, I grant the TO which has already been requested.

 

[MoJo]

Once again, another easy call blown by an ump.

AND the coach of the offence team taking advantage of the situation.

Where is the INTEGRITY ?????

It is so easy to play by the rules.

 

[Suzanne74]

Clear Look back rule violation. Shouldn't even be a question. You can only have one out in this case, but the other runner would go back to her base. I have even seen a team use something like this as a trick play in order to try and draw a look back out.

That is interesting only one out. How is that decided? Who the ump saw first or the lead runner?

 

[Suzanne74]

Not much to add, yes LBR violation. No, time was not out, it should not be granted until the BR advances to 1B and stops (this ensures she can try to advance if she chooses). However, if C or coach or anyone requests time from me in this situation, I simply tell them, "Not until the runner reaches first" They understand right away what the situation is and once the BR stops at the bag, I grant the TO which has already been requested.

That makes sense. The player was on 1st though because the ball was already thrown back to the circle and as she was walking up to the pitcher's mound, I saw her talking to her base coach standing on 1st. Not sure who decided to take off or if the base coaches told them to.

Definitely something the catcher won't mess up on again, but she did turn and ask. She has never been told no or wasn't talked back to, so she just turned and went too soon. It was just a very unusual situation.

 

[mmeece]

That is interesting only one out. How is that decided? Who the ump saw first or the lead runner?

It should be whoever actually left their base first, but my guess is that if it wasn't clear you would call out the lead runner.