Obstruction / following the ball

[KCPhoto]

This was posted in a thread about outfielders. I want to discuss it re: obstruction.


Worst MLB Call Ever

I don't know the rule for MLB but I understand that:

1. A defensive player blocking a baserunner's path, without possession of the ball, that causes the baserunner's to slow or alter his path has obstructed the runner.

2. A defensive player is allowed to pursue a thrown ball into a baserunner's path.

At the rec or MS level these rules are pretty workable, but at higher level ball, I see a conflict that can be difficult to resolve.
In the case above, it is obvious that the runner would be out if the throw were to the plate instead of into the base path.

It's also obvious that the catcher had the ball in his passion before the runner arrived.

The commentator wanted the runner to slide, thus removing the possibility that the catcher caused him to alter his running path prior to receiving the ball.

For younger players, errant throw will cause collisions regularly. My problem is, will the MLB see an increase in errant throws up into the base path to allow the catcher to go there?

 

[djcarter1966]

I don't think so, they have since altered how they apply the rule so that if the player is obviously out like in this scenario they call the runner out.

The reason the runner does not slide in the above scenario is the runner is obviously out. Throwing the ball farther up the line actually reduces your chance of getting the out because the ball has to get there sooner the closer to the plate the more time the throw has to beat the runner.

If you look at the other thread Maddie make a great play blocking the plate this is where it becomes really hard. She is blocking the plate without the ball BUT the reason she is blocking the plate is because that is where the throw is going, if she were to move away from blocking the plate she could not catch the ball, so in this instance she is allowed to block the plate. An easy way to think about it is the base path belongs to the runner unless the catcher has the ball or has to go into the base path to catch the ball the unwritten part I think is that the ball is going to beat the runner; you can't block the path have the runner even with you (and go around) then catch the ball and swipe or dive around to tag the player because they have not reached the plate yet because you forced them to go around

 

[Eric F]

I don't think so, they have since altered how they apply the rule so that if the player is obviously out like in this scenario they call the runner out.

The reason the runner does not slide in the above scenario is the runner is obviously out. Throwing the ball farther up the line actually reduces your chance of getting the out because the ball has to get there sooner the closer to the plate the more time the throw has to beat the runner.

If you look at the other thread Maddie make a great play blocking the plate this is where it becomes really hard. She is blocking the plate without the ball BUT the reason she is blocking the plate is because that is where the throw is going, if she were to move away from blocking the plate she could not catch the ball, so in this instance she is allowed to block the plate. An easy way to think about it is the base path belongs to the runner unless the catcher has the ball or has to go into the base path to catch the ball the unwritten part I think is that the ball is going to beat the runner; you can't block the path have the runner even with you (and go around) then catch the ball and swipe or dive around to tag the player because they have not reached the plate yet because you forced them to go around

As I understand the OBS rule...The fielder has the right-of-way on a batted ball. The runner has the right-of-way on a thrown ball. Once the fielder is in possession of the thrown ball, they can be anywhere they want.

In the case of Maddie's play (http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-catching/28183-access-home-plate-request-denied.html), catching the throw took her further into the base path from where she initially set up, but since the runner was not there yet, there is no OBS. Maddie already had possession of the ball by the time the runner was there, and is within the rules to block the runner's path. If the throw was a little later, Maddie's move to catch the ball may likely have been ruled OBS.

 

[djcarter1966]

^^^^Exactly, I have seen plays where as the runner slides into the catcher as the ball is about to arrive but is not there then arrives as the player completes the slide and does not make it to the plate since it is blocked this is what the rule is trying to prevent and as you state would be obstruction.

I think Maddie's play is the perfect way the play at the plate should unfold, I'm not sure why they would not write in the part about the throw beating the runner but I guess it is inherent in the obstruction rule about not possessing the ball.

 

[Ajaywill]

There are two parts to an Obstruction call and both have to happen in order to have Obstruction.

Fielder does not have the ball
Runner is hindered or impeded by said fielder

If the runner is not hindered or impeded, there is no obstruction.
In the video in the post mentioned, I saw no obstruction. Yes, the catcher was between the runner and the plate, but the runner did not deviate from her path to the plate or attempt to slide earlier than she normally would have (judgement). When the contact between the runner and the catcher happened, the catcher had the ball, so the catcher was in a legal position. Had the contact happened prior to the catcher having the ball or had the runner stuttered stepped or moved to go around the catcher before the catcher had the ball, then there would have been obstruction.

In softball, there is no exemption from obstruction for a thrown ball pulling a defender into the path of the runner.

 

[MTR]

This was posted in a thread about outfielders. I want to discuss it re: obstruction.


Worst MLB Call Ever

I don't know the rule for MLB but I understand that:

1. A defensive player blocking a baserunner's path, without possession of the ball, that causes the baserunner's to slow or alter his path has obstructed the runner.

2. A defensive player is allowed to pursue a thrown ball into a baserunner's path.

At the rec or MS level these rules are pretty workable, but at higher level ball, I see a conflict that can be difficult to resolve.
In the case above, it is obvious that the runner would be out if the throw were to the plate instead of into the base path.

It's also obvious that the catcher had the ball in his passion before the runner arrived.

The commentator wanted the runner to slide, thus removing the possibility that the catcher caused him to alter his running path prior to receiving the ball.

For younger players, errant throw will cause collisions regularly. My problem is, will the MLB see an increase in errant throws up into the base path to allow the catcher to go there?

There is no problem with the obstruction rules at any level. The fiasco in the video is baseball's Obama-care like answer to collisions. Instead of penalizing the person initiating the contact (runner) for the collision, they are trying to restrict the victim of the big collisions in a failed effort to prevent them. This particular call raised all sorts of crap in MLB and they have since backed off such ridiculous interpretations.

If MLB would just apply the obstruction rule as written, it would reduce the occasions when the catcher would be a helpless target. In the same vein, if they also adopted the collision/crash limitations that most softball organizations enforce, it would also limit the runner's desire the run over the defender making the play.