new A/B/C classifications for ASA?

[Momo'sDad]

I heard last night that ASA is changing designations for 2015. The information told to me was that current ASA B programs - which in NorCal include our all-star and fall teams - will now be designated as C programs. This move is supposedly intended to allow rec leagues to create and develop true 'B' teams that would still be attached to the league.

Has anyone in other parts of the country picked up wind of this yet? Any thoughts on the efficacy of such a change in policy? Personally, I have never liked the calendar restrictions, but any insights or perspectives are welcomed.

 

[Cobb_of_Fury]

I heard last night that ASA is changing designations for 2015. The information told to me was that current ASA B programs - which in NorCal include our all-star and fall teams - will now be designated as C programs. This move is supposedly intended to allow rec leagues to create and develop true 'B' teams that would still be attached to the league.

Has anyone in other parts of the country picked up wind of this yet? Any thoughts on the efficacy of such a change in policy? Personally, I have never liked the calendar restrictions, but any insights or perspectives are welcomed.

I would love to see (and strongly doubt I ever will) A true A- B- C system that works.

It would be nice to know that if you have a B team going to a B tournament you wont be playing a bunch of A teams looking just for trophies.

 

[Momo'sDad]

If a low-level A team that has 1 win vs 23 losses drops down to a B tourney in hopes of gaining a little confidence, that's ok. It may or may not work out for them. But if that same low-level A team drops down to a C tourney just to run-rule 4 rec teams, that's not ok. In addition to ASA, we have NSA, U-trip, and DF, and the latter 3 are restriction-free on designation. Our ASA B events are purely B/C as determined by a team's ASA designation.

In your area, are teams able to see which other teams are signed up or penciled in for given tournaments before they enter themselves? That's something in this area that helps teams that are unsure about themselves or where they stand to figure out where they ought to be playing as a season progresses. For the most part, the self-avowed top programs will post their schedules early and then allow the others of us out here to follow or avoid them. I like having a plan going into a season, but with HC reserving the right to request that parents be flexible.

 

[FCA]

I am puzzled by the A/B/C classifications, so perhaps this is a good opportunity to get some info. My understanding is that a team chooses it's class, and the only stipulation is that if your team has an out of state player they must classify as "A". Not sure if that is correct or not?
We see a lot of "A" teams get whooped by "B" teams, so I have been trying to figure out if teams incorrectly classifying themselves, or if this is normal is softball.

 

[CPEM]

The way it was presented to us in SoCal a few months ago was this:

1. All rec ball leagues will be allowed to form a "select" team at the beginning of the season.
2. This team should be composed of the more experienced/talented players.
3. Membership on this team can be fluid throughout the year.
4. The members of this team must also play on a regular team within the league.
5. This team will only play other "select" teams.
6. The rule against forming/practicing with your all-star team (which this essentially is) prior to May 1 is suspended.
7. These teams must compete as a B-level "gold" all-star team, regardless of the level of the home league. So if you are a C-level league, your select team will be participating in B-level tournaments.
8. C-leagues can form their usual allotment of all-star teams in addition to the "select" team, but cannot share players from the "select" team to their regular team.
9. Only players registered in that league are eligible for the "select" team.

When it was presented to us, there was still no solid framework on how it would be set up, or even if it would. They were asking us for our opinion.

I am against this for several reasons:

1. You are essentially picking an all-star team before the season has even begun. Who decides? What criteria do you use? You think there was drama before, this will be even worse.
2. Who will coach/manage the "select" team? Again, now you are making the decision before the season. Will this be in addition to coaching/managing the regular team?
3. Scheduling? The idea was floated out that all of these games would be played on Sundays. These games would be in addition to any of the regular season games. Anyone else think some leagues may scale back their regular season to not overburden their "select" team members?
4. Competition? This will totally deflate the C-level all-star play. Realistically, we can barely scratch together an "all-star" team in each age division, and sometimes we are competitive, and sometimes we are not. But the girls enjoy the experience. Now they'll have to play in the B-level tournaments, and there won't be enough pitching, let alone other talent, to form a C-level team and still be somewhat competitive.
5. Funding? How will leagues pay for this? I know of some leagues that charge upwards of $200-300 and more (plus fundraisers) for the privilege of playing for their all-star team for 2 months.
6. Poaching? As it is, the smaller leagues have a difficult time keeping the larger leagues from poaching all the talent that the smaller leagues have spent time developing. This will just open the floodgates. At our meeting, the two larger leagues were only interested in how quickly they could get girls from other leagues eligible to play for their "select" teams. This is my biggest beef with the proposal.

The focus of rec ball should be to introduce the kids to the sport, help them learn the basics, and possibly prepare them to play travel and/or high school ball. This proposal blurs the lines between rec and travel, and makes things more difficult for the smaller leagues. If you want to play travel, go try out for a travel team. If you want to be able to cherry-pick your team, go coach travel. Furthermore, I believe that many leagues will be pressured to provide more for the "select" team at the expense of the regular league teams, or otherwise face an exodus of the talent. Larger leagues will poach the top players from their local leagues, and more girls will stop playing because nobody is trying to help them get better and nobody likes losing 14-1, and they hear all kinds of great things about AYSO.

Keep in mind, this is a uniquely SoCal perspective. From what I understand, what we have here is far different from the rest of the nation. I understand that "select" teams work in other parts of the nation. That's great. But that concept will destroy the smaller leagues here in SoCal. Just my opinion.

 

[Cobb_of_Fury]

Around here (Western PA) Generally -
All travel Teams designate themselves A teams (with a few exceptions)
All All-star or School teams designate themselves B teams (With a few exceptions)
And then there are Rec Tournaments with very strict rules regarding players all being from the same school district
The problem around here is the alphabet sanctions (ASA,NSA,PGF,USSSA) can't (or Won't) make specific tournaments for the A and the B level teams. If you have a B level team you would be hard pressed to play more than a handful of actual B level tournaments. You normally end up in with some number of A teams and you hope you choose the tournaments you won't get beaten to badly.

I have coached some B teams at lower ages and the one thing that would inevitably happen, once you have taken your time and examined all the teams in a certain tournament and you decide they are at or only slightly above your talent level and you sign up and send the check - a powerhouse team signs up a day before the sign up closes and you know you have no chance.

I'm all for the "you need to play the best teams to get better " mentality but nothing will steer a 10 year old girl away from a sport faster than being 10 runned game after game - They need to be able to play somewhat within their talent level.


I wish... There could be an A,B,C designation for select teams based on your won loss record maybe weighted like the BCS-
so that you could first of all strive for that A ranking and also everyone would be able to know what their talent level was and what everyone else’s is - without having to do tons of research and guessing.

 

[Mocoso]

The way it was presented to us in SoCal a few months ago was this:

.................

Keep in mind, this is a uniquely SoCal perspective. From what I understand, what we have here is far different from the rest of the nation. I understand that "select" teams work in other parts of the nation. That's great. But that concept will destroy the smaller leagues here in SoCal. Just my opinion.

I agree... it will absolutely stink in So Cal... will end up with 12 girls that get picked at 7yrs and that team will be completely closed out to anyone else as they get older... defeats the spirit of rec ball... its going to be used as subsidized travel ball for 12 families at the expense of the rest of the rec division... Would love to know the reasons behind ASA doing this - specially when the selection for allstars is already suspect and questioned by many...

My additional two cents:
Rec ball allstar teams should represent the best players based on the skills, talent, motivation the player has exhibited over the previous SPRING season. including the GOLD team... to say that 12 girls will be "tagged" as GOLD at the beginning of the season and all other girls can at best strive for Silver is BS... anyone that tells me those 12 girls will NOT be the GOLD players the next year and any silver player has a chance is dreaming ... too much daddy ball for that to happen...

 

[SoCal_Dad]

1. All rec ball leagues will be allowed to form a "select" team at the beginning of the season.
...
7. These teams must compete as a B-level "gold" all-star team, regardless of the level of the home league. So if you are a C-level league, your select team will be participating in B-level tournaments.
8. C-leagues can form their usual allotment of all-star teams in addition to the "select" team, but cannot share players from the "select" team to their regular team.

I am against this for several reasons:
...
4. Competition? This will totally deflate the C-level all-star play. Realistically, we can barely scratch together an "all-star" team in each age division, and sometimes we are competitive, and sometimes we are not. But the girls enjoy the experience. Now they'll have to play in the B-level tournaments, and there won't be enough pitching, let alone other talent, to form a C-level team and still be somewhat competitive.

I understand and agree with most of your post. It doesn't make sense for a C-league to form a select team that has to play against B-leagues - C-level was created because the smaller leagues couldn't compete with the larger leagues. Sounds like most C-leagues would be better off not forming a select team.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I am puzzled by the A/B/C classifications, so perhaps this is a good opportunity to get some info. My understanding is that a team chooses it's class, and the only stipulation is that if your team has an out of state player they must classify as "A". Not sure if that is correct or not?
We see a lot of "A" teams get whooped by "B" teams, so I have been trying to figure out if teams incorrectly classifying themselves, or if this is normal is softball.

Classifications vary by sanction.

For ASA, "Girls’ Class B teams must be made up of players who participate in the same league." Therefore, unaffiliated travel teams are supposed to play Class A. ASA doesn't have anything nationally for Girls' below Class B, but they allow regional bodies to create lower levels (e.g. C).

 

[CPEM]

I understand and agree with most of your post. It doesn't make sense for a C-league to form a select team that has to play against B-leagues - C-level was created because the smaller leagues couldn't compete with the larger leagues. Sounds like most C-leagues would be better off not forming a select team.

That would be correct, except the lure of playing on a "select" team for the more talented players will draw them to other leagues, resulting in a perpetual talent drain from a C-league with no "select" team to the B-leagues with "select" teams. My opinion is this: you should leave a rec-ball league to join a travel team, not to join another rec-ball league. As mentioned by "Mocoso" above, it will essentially be a subsidized travel-ball team.