Lag ... and how it pertains to the swing.

[Greenmonsters]

Have you tried comparing "loose" wrists vs. wrists that "power" the bat head through the ball with any of your older girl batting students?
The reason I suggest using an older player is that they would able to change back and forth between "loose" wrists and "powering" wrists.
And it has to be the same girl batting, same bat, exact same balls... so the only variable is the loose vs. powering wrists...

And in that comparison, have your ever tried it on a bigger softball field, (275' or 300') to measure the difference in distance the ball is hit between "loose" hands and "powering" hands?
Or have you ever measured ball exit speed when comparing "loose" vs. "powering" wrists, with the same batter?

Thanks

Please explain where the source of power for the wrist, or any other joint, is.

 

[crankermo]

While both 'hands' influence the barrel, it is the "top-hand path" that largely 'controls/supports' the barrel. Getting the top-hand path correct is a big part of what I work on ... and IMO, when you get this correct then you can really let the energy flow without worrying about dumping the barrel.

BINGO. Brooke was struggling bad with dumping the barrel and popping everything up for about 2wks straight. I showed her game swings and took still shots to show Her timing was perfect and other than creating a elbow pivot point instead of a hand pivot point her mechanics were perfect.

She was so focused on turning the triangle that her front elbow was working up to fast which dumped the barrel. So I broke her swing down and told her to get the top hand working and let the triangle turn happen because of the hands and not the elbows. Since then she's raised to her average up 30 points and is hitting to all fields again with power. Unfortunately she has dug herself a big hole to climb out of but there's time.

Just another case of a hitter making things too complicated.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Have you tried comparing "loose" wrists vs. wrists that "power" the bat head through the ball with any of your older girl batting students?
The reason I suggest using an older player is that they would able to change back and forth between "loose" wrists and "powering" wrists.
And it has to be the same girl batting, same bat, exact same balls... so the only variable is the loose vs. powering wrists...

And in that comparison, have your ever tried it on a bigger softball field, (275' or 300') to measure the difference in distance the ball is hit between "loose" hands and "powering" hands?
Or have you ever measured ball exit speed when comparing "loose" vs. "powering" wrists, with the same batter?

Thanks

Once a hitter understands the energy transfer process they understand that "loose wrists" are "powering wrists".

That said, I suspect what you mean is not 'energy transfer', but the muscling of the wrists through impact. I have had hitters that developed a habit/mechanic/movement-pattern of muscling the wrists through impact use a zepp and perform swings with muscling wrists through impact versus using the energy transfer through loose wrists ... and the loose wrists approach has always given the better readings.

If you think about it, muscling the wrists can easily break a good kinematic sequence ... whereas the energy transfer approach leads to allowing the barrel to work around the hands/wrists WHILE providing a timely squaring of the ball ... giving you both squaring and high barrel velocity.

As I tell some of my hitters ... let's unhinge on one!!!

 

[Buttermaker]

I showed a friend of mine who is a golf coach and very good golfer how to pull back the scap during the back swing and start down keeping it pulled back. He started hitting the ball even better than he normally hits it. He really loved the feeling of support he felt at the top. It allowed him to use the bigger muscles to swing he club (his words). Honestly, it never occurred to me until a few days ago (when I was looking at a Dustin Johnson swing) to pull back the scap in the golf swing. For me - it's not ingrained quite yet but when I tilted in the rear hip socket I was able to get off some really good shots.

[video]https://youtu.be/nN_07bOzll8[/video]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nN_07bOzll8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
And really no different than this

Lag is created as the swing stays on the side of the body - the hands/wrists should be active - not locked

 

[slugger3]

Please explain where the source of power for the wrist, or any other joint, is.

muscle, ligaments/tendons...

 

[slugger3]

Once a hitter understands the energy transfer process they understand that "loose wrists" are "powering wrists".

That said, I suspect what you mean is not 'energy transfer', but the muscling of the wrists through impact. I have had hitters that developed a habit/mechanic/movement-pattern of muscling the wrists through impact use a zepp and perform swings with muscling wrists through impact versus using the energy transfer through loose wrists ... and the loose wrists approach has always given the better readings.

If you think about it, muscling the wrists can easily break a good kinematic sequence ... whereas the energy transfer approach leads to allowing the barrel to work around the hands/wrists WHILE providing a timely squaring of the ball ... giving you both squaring and high barrel velocity.

As I tell some of my hitters ... let's unhinge on one!!!

So are you telling your batters to have their wrists assist in moving the bat forward into the ball, along with the rest of their arms/body, while the bat barrel approaches the ball and to continue to drive the barrel through the ball?

I'm telling my DDs to power their wrists through the ball. Not just at impact, but through the ball. The more they power their wrists through the ball, the higher the ball exit speed...

The best example of powering wrists, or powering wrist (singular), is the "DeMarini swing that came about in the 90's in slow pitch softball. And it's still around today.
In a right handed batter, the batter's left hand would have their pinky finger over lapping the knob, and hanging on to the knob with a fairly loose grip. Mainly used as a pivot point, but still used in aiding the bat through the ball. And then also used to hang on the the bat in a one handed manner, after the bat hit the ball.
And the batter's right hand was used to drive the bat barrel through the ball , by literally throwing or pushing the bat handle through the ball.
This is obviously an extreme example. But it uses both your loose wrist method as a pivot and a method for hanging on to the bat, and a powering wrist to throw or push the bat through the ball.

With all of the gif posts that you guys put on this board, to me, that's one of the most prominent things that I see...the wrists powering the bat through the ball.

In the Miggy gifs, you can clearly see his forearms flexing, along with his wrists powering through the ball, and bringing the bat head around and through the ball...unless I'm reading it wrong?

Thanks

 

[TDS]

BINGO. Brooke was struggling bad with dumping the barrel and popping everything up for about 2wks straight. I showed her game swings and took still shots to show Her timing was perfect and other than creating a elbow pivot point instead of a hand pivot point her mechanics were perfect.

She was so focused on turning the triangle that her front elbow was working up to fast which dumped the barrel. So I broke her swing down and told her to get the top hand working and let the triangle turn happen because of the hands and not the elbows. Since then she's raised to her average up 30 points and is hitting to all fields again with power. Unfortunately she has dug herself a big hole to climb out of but there's time.

Just another case of a hitter making things too complicated.

Agree Crank.. One can get locked and clamped down in advance of pitch recognition.. This IMO is a sequence issue.. IOW's the hands need to be free vs clamped to adjust for the plane of the pitch.. This is also the time of the sequence where you want every available resource available to direct the barrel not just one leg.

 

[Greenmonsters]

muscle, ligaments/tendons...

Joints have no power source! Whether the wrists are fixed, cocked, or loose, it's the result of what the muscles in the arms are doing. Common terms like fast hands or strong wrists really are misleading and don't accurately describe what is actually happening.

 

[Greenmonsters]

So are you telling your batters to have their wrists assist in moving the bat forward into the ball, along with the rest of their arms/body, while the bat barrel approaches the ball and to continue to drive the barrel through the ball?

I'm telling my DDs to power their wrists through the ball. Not just at impact, but through the ball. The more they power their wrists through the ball, the higher the ball exit speed...

The best example of powering wrists, or powering wrist (singular), is the "DeMarini swing that came about in the 90's in slow pitch softball. And it's still around today.
In a right handed batter, the batter's left hand would have their pinky finger over lapping the knob, and hanging on to the knob with a fairly loose grip. Mainly used as a pivot point, but still used in aiding the bat through the ball. And then also used to hang on the the bat in a one handed manner, after the bat hit the ball.
And the batter's right hand was used to drive the bat barrel through the ball , by literally throwing or pushing the bat handle through the ball.
This is obviously an extreme example. But it uses both your loose wrist method as a pivot and a method for hanging on to the bat, and a powering wrist to throw or push the bat through the ball.

With all of the gif posts that you guys put on this board, to me, that's one of the most prominent things that I see...the wrists powering the bat through the ball.

In the Miggy gifs, you can clearly see his forearms flexing, along with his wrists powering through the ball, and bringing the bat head around and through the ball...unless I'm reading it wrong?

Thanks

Try to reconcile what you think Miggy is doing with a clip of Frazier's no-hands home run. If you want to try to understand what's important from a physics perspective, use the search funtion here and read what pobguy (Dr. Nathan) has to say.

FWIW, some in the business considered Ray Demarini to be a much smarter/better salesman/marketer than bat engineer. Notably, he reportedly was the pioneer of the high drop bats, principally as a means to expand the product line and, IMO, we can thank him for an abundance of flawed swings that produce good results before the pitching gets tough.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So are you telling your batters to have their wrists assist in moving the bat forward into the ball, along with the rest of their arms/body, while the bat barrel approaches the ball and to continue to drive the barrel through the ball?

I'm telling my DDs to power their wrists through the ball. Not just at impact, but through the ball. The more they power their wrists through the ball, the higher the ball exit speed...

The best example of powering wrists, or powering wrist (singular), is the "DeMarini swing that came about in the 90's in slow pitch softball. And it's still around today.
In a right handed batter, the batter's left hand would have their pinky finger over lapping the knob, and hanging on to the knob with a fairly loose grip. Mainly used as a pivot point, but still used in aiding the bat through the ball. And then also used to hang on the the bat in a one handed manner, after the bat hit the ball.
And the batter's right hand was used to drive the bat barrel through the ball , by literally throwing or pushing the bat handle through the ball.
This is obviously an extreme example. But it uses both your loose wrist method as a pivot and a method for hanging on to the bat, and a powering wrist to throw or push the bat through the ball.

With all of the gif posts that you guys put on this board, to me, that's one of the most prominent things that I see...the wrists powering the bat through the ball.

In the Miggy gifs, you can clearly see his forearms flexing, along with his wrists powering through the ball, and bringing the bat head around and through the ball...unless I'm reading it wrong?

Thanks

Hitting is an energy transfer process. That energy is transferred through the wrists. The path of the wrists into and through impact is that of ulnar deviation ... it is a whipping type action and not a strong muscled type action.