Hustling in and out and to 1st.

[Scorekeeper]

I think if I were the coach I'd tell them to jump on a treadmill now and then to stay in shape Kidding. I have no real information on what's involved in training for baseball or any of that. I just think it's kind of funny that they can't run hard to first, according to that one guy anyway, because it's a long season and they'll get too tired. It just sounds...ridiculous.

Not only is it ridiculous, it's exactly what you said before. Pathetic. And what makes it even worse, isn't just that it's accepted as "normal", many actually try to justify it!

 

[SoCal_Dad]

FWIW - The unwritten rules of Jonathan Papelbon attacking Bryce Harper for not hustling - SBNation.com

 

[CoogansBluff]

How often does it happen that lack of hustle to first base costs a MLB team a baserunner or a game?

 

[Scorekeeper]

How often does it happen that lack of hustle to first base costs a MLB team a baserunner or a game?

No way to know because it’s not something tracked by anyone I’ve heard of. And even if it were, how would it be possible to gauge if a mistake in the 1st inning that would have changed who was batting would have altered the final result of the game? So, it could be that it’s never happened or that it happens many times in every game.

For my $$$$$, why even worry about how often it happens when it’s so simple to take completely out of the equation? As has been said so many times in “discussions” about hustling to 1st, it’s not like anyone is being asked to do something they haven’t been trained to do or that takes more than 5 seconds.

 

[CoogansBluff]

No way to know because it’s not something tracked by anyone I’ve heard of. And even if it were, how would it be possible to gauge if a mistake in the 1st inning that would have changed who was batting would have altered the final result of the game? So, it could be that it’s never happened or that it happens many times in every game.

For my $$$$$, why even worry about how often it happens when it’s so simple to take completely out of the equation? As has been said so many times in “discussions” about hustling to 1st, it’s not like anyone is being asked to do something they haven’t been trained to do or that takes more than 5 seconds.

The reason for asking is that it might be we're getting worked up for nothing. I realize that it hasn't been researched, so it becomes a matter of opinion. My view is that it's not a big deal in MLB (which is very different than 12U fastpitch). One reason I think that is because I don't hear managers or players - the ones whose livelihoods are at stake - ever talk about it as though it's a real issue, unless it's an old-timer talking about 'today's players.' Yes, there are examples of players being called out for it in isolated instances, but, for example, I've never heard a player or manager say, ''One thing we've gotten better at is running out every ground ball as hard as we can, even if it's an easy come-backer to a pitcher, and that's made a difference.'' Logically speaking, I'd just think that if it were that consequential in winning and losing, then you'd hear managers making it a mandate, that no matter the situation, you always sprint to first like it's the Olympic 100 meters. But they don't, so perhaps the strategy is a sound one - that 162 games is a grind, and that Ryne Sandberg played 16 years in the majors, and maybe he knows something about pacing yourself that those who haven't played over 2,000 games in the majors might not appreciate. And it's not like nobody runs hard to first. They're always busting it if they think they've got a chance of beating it. It's generally when a grounder has been fielded cleanly and the hitter says either I'm out, or 1 in 1000 he'll throw it away, in which case I'll run hard enough to be safe in that event.'

 

[Scorekeeper]

The reason for asking is that it might be we're getting worked up for nothing. I realize that it hasn't been researched, so it becomes a matter of opinion. My view is that it's not a big deal in MLB (which is very different than 12U fastpitch). One reason I think that is because I don't hear managers or players - the ones whose livelihoods are at stake - ever talk about it as though it's a real issue, unless it's an old-timer talking about 'today's players.' Yes, there are examples of players being called out for it in isolated instances, but, for example, I've never heard a player or manager say, ''One thing we've gotten better at is running out every ground ball as hard as we can, even if it's an easy come-backer to a pitcher, and that's made a difference.'' Logically speaking, I'd just think that if it were that consequential in winning and losing, then you'd hear managers making it a mandate, that no matter the situation, you always sprint to first like it's the Olympic 100 meters. But they don't, so perhaps the strategy is a sound one - that 162 games is a grind, and that Ryne Sandberg played 16 years in the majors, and maybe he knows something about pacing yourself that those who haven't played over 2,000 games in the majors might not appreciate. And it's not like nobody runs hard to first. They're always busting it if they think they've got a chance of beating it.

Well, one thing different about the ML and all other venues, is people have to be very careful what they say in public for fear of looking bad to the boss as well as starting trouble with the union. But even at that, are you trying to say no manager or player has ever said anything like that? I happen to know a few ML/Ex-ML players and a few ML managers or coaches, and I have heard them say it makes them mad that many times players “give up”.

162 games is a grind, but who’s talking about anything more than a few seconds of effort an additional few times a game? That’s not exactly asking for blood. Players on defense, even in the ML, dive, run into walls, and any number of other things that are a lot more dangerous than running hard to 1st base. Stealing a base is much more a risk of injury. How many times do runners take off on a pitch? How is that any less dangerous than running hard to 1st base?

It's generally when a grounder has been fielded cleanly and the hitter says either I'm out, or 1 in 1000 he'll throw it away, in which case I'll run hard enough to be safe in that event.'

If that’s what you really think, I maintain you don’t watch the player going to 1st very often. Try timing every batter every time they put the ball in play or have the opportunity to reach base because of a dropped 3rd strike. If you do that for a few ML/college/HS games I guarantee you’ll change your tune. I suspect that it’s different in SB, at least for the women/girls, and likely better for men/boys.

 

[djcarter1966]

You can't compare MLB and fast pitch. Distance is the greatest difference, you can take a hard hit ball in MLB knock it down, go to pick it up then bobble it, pick it up make a two step shuffle throw and gun out the player at first. In fast ptich after the second bobble you are probably peeking at second to make sure she is not going for two (OK allow me a little poetic license). In MLB on a pop fly however I will give you there is no excuse for at least not be standing on first while the catch is being made or running out completely if there are two outs. Plus stamina and being in shape have a lot less to do with fast twitch muscles used for speed and acceleration, you will pull a muscle a lot more running sprints versus 5Ks.

 

[Il softball fan]

In fastpitch, every ball in play should be ran out to first. Many times if the fielder looks up and sees the batter sprinting down the line, it makes them hurry, or rush the throw, resulting in error. My dd is speedy and beats out a lot of throws to first that slower girls would not. She has been struggling as of late at the plate, and has hit a couple of really weak bouncers towards third, that she has beaten out. I yelled to her "nice bunt" as she was standing on first. She was less than thrilled with me lol.

 

[quincy]

My 2 cents.

Watching a MLB or SB game on TV does a poor job of showing how much the players are hustling. Go to a game and those players are moving.

Back when the White Sox had overweight catcher Fisk on their Team he was down the 1st baseline backing up the base, you just do not see it on TV.

 

[Scorekeeper]

My 2 cents.

Watching a MLB or SB game on TV does a poor job of showing how much the players are hustling. Go to a game and those players are moving.

Back when the White Sox had overweight catcher Fisk on their Team he was down the 1st baseline backing up the base, you just do not see it on TV.

You’re right. TV is a poor way to see “hustle”, and many of them do hustle a great deal. That’s not the issue. They don’t hustle anything like the average woman’s FPSB team, or even lower level baseball teams.

But no one’s questioned hustle on defense, which is what you described. The talks so far has been about busting butt when the ball is put into play.