How fast for a good riseball?

[Rocketech1]

A good riseball will "jump" within the last 10' of the plate and you can usually tell when the catcher "flinches" right before catching it.

As Rick Pauly has demonstrated with video of Sarah numerous times, the riseball never "jumps" but actually flattens out before it reaches home plate. Statements like yours are exactly why the myth that riseballs "jump" keep being erroneously rehashed over and over again...

 

[riseball]

To throw a true riseball you need a combination of speed and spin, which is why it is usually the last pitch learned. I would bet that 80% of pitchers who claim to have a riseball are really throwing a high fastball. A good riseball will "jump" within the last 10' of the plate and you can usually tell when the catcher "flinches" right before catching it.

Since most pitchers release past perpendicular (mid-line) of the forward movement of the upper arm (humerus), throwing a riseball is virtually impossible and the result is a high bulletspin FB. However, with someone with great IR can learn to throw a true rise fairly quickly. From my experience most who struggle with the rise are actually struggling with mastering IR.

 

[Rocketech1]

Since most pitchers release past perpendicular (mid-line) of the forward movement of the upper arm (humerus), throwing a riseball is virtually impossible and the result is a high bulletspin FB. However, with someone with great IR can learn to throw a true rise fairly quickly. From my experience most who struggle with the rise are actually struggling with mastering IR.

While I generally agree with what you are saying, I have not seen any slo-mo video of a riseball pitcher with true 6-12 backspin thrown at 65mph+. If someone can post one, that would be great. Rick posted slo-mo of Sarah's riseball, and it looks to be tiltled upwards, bullet spin and she has great IR mechanics.

 

[riseball]

As Rick Pauly has demonstrated with video of Sarah numerous times, the riseball never "jumps" but actually flattens out before it reaches home plate. Statements like yours are exactly why the myth that riseballs "jump" keep being erroneously rehashed over and over again...

How fine can we split hairs with this? It is the flattening out that is the perceived jump. The biggest myth with respect to riseballs is how many can actually teach and/or throw the pitch. For those that can, most could care less about the physics debate and associated mental "self gratification".

 

[Rocketech1]

How fine can we split hairs with this? It is the flattening out that is the perceived jump. The biggest myth with respect to riseballs is how many can actually teach and/or throw the pitch. For those that can, most could care less about the physics debate and associated mental "self gratification".

Maybe its just me, but I want my DD to understand the difference between reality and fantasy (i.e. what a pitched ball can do vs. what it can't do). Very confusing to a 13YO when the instructor says "did you see that ball jump" and DD can't see it. Doesn't make any sense to me to bury your head in the sand and plead ignorance when reality shows otherwise. The Hanson Principle is very valuable when it comes to analyzing and understanding good mechanics and the results thereof.

 

[JAD]

Maybe its just me, but I want my DD to understand the difference between reality and fantasy (i.e. what a pitched ball can do vs. what it can't do). Very confusing to a 13YO when the instructor says "did you see that ball jump" and DD can't see it. Doesn't make any sense to me to bury your head in the sand and plead ignorance when reality shows otherwise. The Hanson Principle is very valuable when it comes to analyzing and understanding good mechanics and the results thereof.

If you really want your DD to experience it, find a good riseball pitcher and have your DD suit up and catch. When she "flinches" at the last second to catch the pitch she will understand...

 

[riseball]

Maybe its just me, but I want my DD to understand the difference between reality and fantasy (i.e. what a pitched ball can do vs. what it can't do). Very confusing to a 13YO when the instructor says "did you see that ball jump" and DD can't see it. Doesn't make any sense to me to bury your head in the sand and plead ignorance when reality shows otherwise. The Hanson Principle is very valuable when it comes to analyzing and understanding good mechanics and the results thereof.

I just do not see that it really matters so long as it provides the hitter with the gift of time to sit and contemplate what they did or did not see.

 

[Rocketech1]

I just do not see that it really matters so long as it provides the hitter with the gift of time to sit and contemplate what they did or did not see.

I guess ignorance is bliss!

 

[riseball]

I guess ignorance is bliss!

Not about ignorance but maybe it is best to focus on what really matters. When you go to the plate it is not an oral exam where you get to wax poetic on the minutia of what a pitch does or does not do. You have to go up there and actually hit the ball, not answer trivia questions on Magnus or Bernoulli.

 

[JJS]

Not about ignorance but maybe it is best to focus on what really matters. When you go to the plate it is not an oral exam where you get to wax poetic on the minutia of what a pitch does or does not do. You have to go up there and actually hit the ball, not answer trivia questions on Magnus or Bernoulli.

Agreed. It isn't if the ball actually rises or not that is important. What's important is that it is perceived to rise. Thrown correctly, the riseball looks like it jumps because it doesn't drop as much. Not dropping as much as it should in a hitters mind is the same thing as rising when they swing and miss. A pitcher, catcher or batter do not need to understand the X-Y axis. They only need to understand that the ball appears to rise.