grip

[Hitter]

Howard would you recommend using your method for 8 and 9 yr olds? and if they are taught the door knocks to other knocks method is your method something that could be added later on with ease?

I think my youngest one currently is 11 years old and it is no problem what so ever. They think the saran wrap around the finger is cool and one even puts a hair tie rubber band on her glove to remind her to keep the bat by the finger pad.

The next HUGE gain comes from the hand over drill by getting them to extension and for most it is actually the first time as they have hit their back and shoulder area. The grip seems to give them more bat control and less wrist roll. The transitioning during connection also seems to easier and less casting of the hands because the bat is more in the front of the hand than in back of the hand. we have had bat speed gains of 2 to 4 MPH and the difference at contact can be heard in the click of the bat as you seem to hit the ball more squarely.

Thanks Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

Howard said :

"As soon as they take a couple of swings we then introduce the next big thing for the girls and that is extension."

Howard also earlier linked this mechanical (physics) swing description:


http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/PUBLICATIONS/44.BatSwing.pdf

This study by Cross demomstrates that the swing requires (as compared to passive double pendulum) an early couple (positive couple/handle torque/holding torque) and a late opposing couple (negative couple).

This can be understand to be related to the grip and extension issues Howard gives emphasis to.

To understand the result of these couples, it helps to compare the swing to a pure/passive mechanical double pendulum as seen here:


Double Pendulum

and to a good (no lead wrist breakdown) golf swing vs bad (lead wrist breakdown/lead wristcupping/dorsiflexion/"flipping") golf swing. The bad golf swing being equivalent to the low level fastpitch swing where the kids spins the bat around the wrists and slaps them self on the back (not good to do especially when using whiphit or hinge/medicus bat.

YouTube - Lynn Blake Golf - Barclays


YouTube - Lynn Blake- Barclay's Golf Academy 2008 Day 2


if you look at the simple double pendulum model, the second/distal pendulum would be the "bat" and the first pendulum is the lead arm or forearm and the hinge between the two is analagous to the wrist.

When the distal pendulum/bat accelerates, there is initially a narrowing of the hinge angle which needs to be prevented in the baseball/FP swing to avoid drag/long swing, this is the "positive couple"/holding torque/handle torque of the higher level swing. This force needs to be applied without forcing early/premature unhinging/uncocking/aDduction of the lead wrist.

When the distal pendulum then overtakes the proximal pendulum ("contact"), it keeps going in the passive double pendulum like the low level "flipping" swing flaw, so something has to happen at contact in the higher level MLB/FP swing that prevents flipping, something which is a "negative" or "opposing" couple as compared to the flipping situation.

This is accomplished by centrifugal force and stability of the lead wrist joint (resisting flip/dorsiflexion/breakdown) as well as a contribution from "extensor action" by back arm/top hand extension in the case of two handed swings.

The result in golf is the desired follow-through or "finish swivel action".

YouTube - Finish Swivel

A good grip to support both early postive couple and late negative couple as well as good extension accomplish the desired release mecanics in gol and higher level bb and FP swings.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

This study by Cross demonstrates that the swing requires (as compared to passive double pendulum) an early couple (positive couple/handle torque/holding torque) and a late opposing couple (negative couple).

Basically, this means that you have to maintain the hinge angle from the start of the swing through a frame or so before the POC.

First, you have to provide a positive couple to keep the bat head from wrapping as the shoulders start to rotate, then you have to provide a negative couple to keep the bat head from whipping too early.

 

[RichK]

As I've been working with our girls' swings this winter using some of Howard's ideas (hammer demo and hand over drills and tap back of helmet on set up to establish 45 degree angle/wrist hinge early ) as well as learning more about wrist hinge angle in general it's been amazing to me how important this is.

Quick story on wrist hinge and bat drag:

Our team is 12U, my first year with it though I had some of the girls when they were very young. One of our new girls is a fantastic athlete, incredibly fast, good size, athletic build, plays basketball and soccer and is a promising if VERY raw softball player. Her swing from the get-go this fall was an issue. We didn't attack it in detail then, we played some tournaments (we are in midwest) and had a pretty full fall all around but we planned not to break down/rebuild swings until the winter.

Immediately, you could see she has probably the biggest case of bat drag I've ever seen, in fact she almost "reaches back" on load.

I've come to feel while this was obviously a huge problem we need to correct, it was not necessarily a bad instinct on her account. She realized she needed to create some sort of leverage to hit the ball hard/far, she was just going about it all wrong. Of course when she saw slow pitching she could hit the ball a mile, she was strong and had a whole body's worth of leverage working for her!

So...I started working with her with a small mallet showing her wrist hinge and then with a choked up bat working toward bottom hand/lead elbow drills. I was amazed to find that her wrist naturally hinged the wrong way entirely! I was stunned. I almost had to "break her wrist" physically to get her to a proper hinged/lagged position. I started to put it all together and see how her starting grip and natural wrist comfort slot (hinged in the wrong direction) would then in turn make her move to dropping her hands and dragging the bat to gain leverage the only form of leverage she could actually generate given her grip and set up. With her wrist literally cocked the wrong way, how else could she create any leverage or whip action?

Needless to say we are working with her on this. I'm not sure looking at her real-time swing or even tee work alone we would have realized the extent of her wrist hinge problem. And now with a lot of learned on this site, we have tools and cues to go about fixing it.

All our girls have some degree of problem with bat drag, I now see how big the hinge angle is in fixing that and their entire swing.

So thanks everyone.

 

[jinjet95]

Howard,

Will you be demonstrating the hammer drill at Evangel U tomorrow? I know my daughter's bat drags, but I'm a visual learner. I can hammer a nail, but I want to make sure I show her correctly.

Thanks,
Brenda

 

[Hitter]

Howard,

Will you be demonstrating the hammer drill at Evangel U tomorrow? I know my daughter's bat drags, but I'm a visual learner. I can hammer a nail, but I want to make sure I show her correctly.

Thanks,
Brenda

Yes we did and it was nice to meet you....I hope we did not complicate things too much that you or your daughter could not understand what we were teaching.

Thanks for introducing yourself and i hope she had a great time. As you know now we try and keep it simple so the kids and parents and coaches will get it!

Look forward to your comments.

Thanks Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

a nice golf video that shows how emphasis on hammering action/"vertical" uncocking of the wrist at contact avoids "horizontal" breakdown of the wrist/prvents slap your self on the back swing/promotes "good extension":

YouTube - Left Wrist Uncock Drill by Lynn Blake

 

[Hitter]

As I've been working with our girls' swings this winter using some of Howard's ideas (hammer demo and hand over drills and tap back of helmet on set up to establish 45 degree angle/wrist hinge early ) as well as learning more about wrist hinge angle in general it's been amazing to me how important this is.

Quick story on wrist hinge and bat drag:

Our team is 12U, my first year with it though I had some of the girls when they were very young. One of our new girls is a fantastic athlete, incredibly fast, good size, athletic build, plays basketball and soccer and is a promising if VERY raw softball player. Her swing from the get-go this fall was an issue. We didn't attack it in detail then, we played some tournaments (we are in midwest) and had a pretty full fall all around but we planned not to break down/rebuild swings until the winter.

Immediately, you could see she has probably the biggest case of bat drag I've ever seen, in fact she almost "reaches back" on load.

I've come to feel while this was obviously a huge problem we need to correct, it was not necessarily a bad instinct on her account. She realized she needed to create some sort of leverage to hit the ball hard/far, she was just going about it all wrong. Of course when she saw slow pitching she could hit the ball a mile, she was strong and had a whole body's worth of leverage working for her!

So...I started working with her with a small mallet showing her wrist hinge and then with a choked up bat working toward bottom hand/lead elbow drills. I was amazed to find that her wrist naturally hinged the wrong way entirely! I was stunned. I almost had to "break her wrist" physically to get her to a proper hinged/lagged position. I started to put it all together and see how her starting grip and natural wrist comfort slot (hinged in the wrong direction) would then in turn make her move to dropping her hands and dragging the bat to gain leverage the only form of leverage she could actually generate given her grip and set up. With her wrist literally cocked the wrong way, how else could she create any leverage or whip action?

Needless to say we are working with her on this. I'm not sure looking at her real-time swing or even tee work alone we would have realized the extent of her wrist hinge problem. And now with a lot of learned on this site, we have tools and cues to go about fixing it.

All our girls have some degree of problem with bat drag, I now see how big the hinge angle is in fixing that and their entire swing.

So thanks everyone.

We try to keep it simple so the kids and parents, coaches get it! The type grip we have described is working for most and they can control the release of the bat to the ball much better than when the thumb clamps down over the index finger. It is indeed funny as some of the kids dads are in the building trades and almost laugh at how simple this is and they never thought to teach it to their daughter before now! It is the same example when we use a 2 x 4 and a small block of wood to demonstrate leverage. These simple examples get them to see and feel the differences as they all learn differently.

Baseball and softball is a game played by kids however it is orchestrated and run by adults and adults do not like to loose to kids or other adults! Even when it comes to making a point about who is more right or wrong it is usually done at the expense of some one else being proved wrong to the degree they do want to risk even asking a question for fear of looking like a person who may not have all the answers...again the kids get short changed because someone has to be more accurate than the other person with there point of view!

Thanks Howard

 

[rowdy]

The one thing I would add to the discussion is the need for the bat to be in the fingertips if you want to line up the knocking knuckles. I was a college baseball player and was very successful as a hitter but I did not and still do not use knocking knuckles. But in teaching softball players to hit I listened to some coaches in central texas that were very reputable and figured out the knocking knuckles and it has improved our hitting and our ability to have continuity. I couldn't figure out the hinge peice with the KK until we moved the bat to the fingertips and presto, it came together.

 

[Mark H]

Very few good hitters line up their door knocker knuckles at all.

When you guys study elite hitters, do you find the same thing Chris did or no?