getting lower half going

[softballphreak]

some of kids use the legs and hips but it appears to be at a minimum. I show them the power they get from doing it and they try it and it looks like they get very little. I just need something to teach them the feeling of really driving thru the ball. They look like they are going after it at about 50% of effort even though they tell me they are going 100%.

Just curious, what age level?

When I have a kid not using her hips one of the drills I do is to have her do a full swing and freeze at follow through. I then have them bring their top half back to launch but leave their bottom half rotated. Then I either let them hit from that position off a hitting stick or I front soft toss to them for about 5 or 6 swings. It's tough on the legs after a few swings.

It has a positive effect after a few cycles.

I used to do something very similar with stretch tubing hooked to a bat using very slow form-correct swings. I did this primarily for conditioning but I soon noticed it had the effect of creating muscle memory for the hips and feet.

Avoid the over-rotation of the rear foot; that foot is used to initiate the hips but then is actually pulled by the hips even to the point of pulling the toe up off the ground at point of contact.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Avoid the over-rotation of the rear foot; that foot is used to initiate the hips but then is actually pulled by the hips even to the point of pulling the toe up off the ground at point of contact.

Over rotation and the toe off the ground means the hitter is leaning too far forward. The movement forward is for momentum, not for 'reaching' for the ball. You will lose power reaching. Planting of the front foot correctly keeps the hips from pulling. Weight still stays slightly back. It's like twisting a rubber band half way ( little response ) now twist the band from top to bottom ( big response ). Shoulders to hips to knees to feet. ( all as one )

 

[softballphreak]

Over rotation and the toe off the ground means the hitter is leaning too far forward. The movement forward is for momentum, not for 'reaching' for the ball. You will lose power reaching. Planting of the front foot correctly keeps the hips from pulling. Weight still stays slightly back. It's like twisting a rubber band half way ( little response ) now twist the band from top to bottom ( big response ). Shoulders to hips to knees to feet. ( all as one )

No, you don't lean forward nor reach, you stay stacked and you stay connected. As the rear hip rotates at point of contact many times the rear toe will momentarily leave the ground (see the Model Swings thread for some good examples.)

It's from the bottom up, feet, hips, shoulders, hands, sequentially.

 

[softball_chic_12]

This is squishing the bug and it's not what good hitter do.

I'm not saying that's what everyone needs to do. Im just saying that at a young age it helped me get on the right track to being a good hitter. now my batting average is almost .500. so i think it helped

 

[GOINGDEEP]

now twist the band from top to bottom ( big response ). Shoulders to hips to knees to feet. ( all as one )

Softballphreak, your correct on from the bottom to top. I was having a few adult beverages out by the pool while posting. I knew in my mind what I was trying to say, but obviously was not typing clearly. Guess I was thinking about 'drinking' my beer from top to bottom??

 

[Wellphyt]

I agree with most everything except rotating the rear foot clockwise. That feels very awkward and really produces too much resistance to hips.

I agree you should not spin the rear foot. It's more of a push off the pad behind the big toe culminating with the foot coming up on the toe at contact. This would be less for an outside pitch and more on an inside pitch.

I see about as much bad throwing technique as I do hitting technique. So, like Hitter says, get the throwing right first.

During the overhand throw the back foot turns perpendicular to the target and the entire body turns sideways to the target. This position is similar to being in a batting stance facing the pitcher (target). In the overhand throw as the hands separate and the back foot pushes off, the hips stay open. I've learned that applying force with the back foot in a clockwise direction (RH thrower) is what keeps the hips open. I've found it works the same way in hitting, except in hitting the same principle would be referred to as maintaining the load in the back hip.

In the overhand throw the direction of force applied by the back foot to the ground comes naturally in most cases. Most of us do it without even thinking about. I know I never thought about it until recently when I started studying the overhand throw in greater detail.

 

[tom.guerry]

good throwing can develop "naturally" at an early age with the right environment (right environment was more likely to happen for boys 50 years ago, less likely for boys now and always less likely for firls due to distractions, starting later and overcoaching).

Both the high level swing and throw motions require the resistance which is easier to come by swinging the arm in a backward direction, so the resistance effect/pattern is first learned in throw, then transplanted to the swing where similar rear arm action sequence then turning the bat between the hands (less dramatic action than windup for throw, BUT using a much heavier bat to accentuate resistance) gives the necessary resistance.

if you can throw, you can hit.

 

[Wellphyt]

good throwing can develop "naturally" at an early age with the right environment (right environment was more likely to happen for boys 50 years ago, less likely for boys now and always less likely for firls due to distractions, starting later and overcoaching).

Both the high level swing and throw motions require the resistance which is easier to come by swinging the arm in a backward direction, so the resistance effect/pattern is first learned in throw, then transplanted to the swing where similar rear arm action sequence then turning the bat between the hands (less dramatic action than windup for throw, BUT using a much heavier bat to accentuate resistance) gives the necessary resistance.

if you can throw, you can hit.

Tom, have you ever noticed how some hitters like Ruth and Williams would drop their hands at the start of their negative move? I have a clip of Ruth with his hands down at his belt buckle as he begins his stride. I view this movement as the hitting equivalent of the backward swing of the throwing arm seen in the overhand throw. I'll get the kids to do this sometimes in the cage to loosen them up and break down barriers. The feel is as if you were winding up to throw the bat. I've found that the body naturally knows how to transition from the overhand throw pattern to the swing. IOW if a kid winds up with the bat with both hands holding onto the bat, they will never literally throw the bat overhand like they were throwing a ball. They will always transition to a swing.

One of the barriers I think this helps with is the concept of "live and independent" hands. During the wind up drill the hands will trace out a reverse arc during the negative move. The hands will start down and then arc back and up to arm pit height during the stride. At the top of the arc (armpit level) the back upper arm externally rotates (top hand resist as back elbow works underneath i.e. slots) providing the last bit of stretch, at GO.

So instead of the hands dropping prior to the swing being launched, the hands arc up to armpit level where the swing is launched. IOW it creates a rythmic movement that prevents the hands from dropping prior to swing launch. I've found that dropping the hands is one of the hardest habits for kids to break. Teaching a rythmic movement which ends with the hands back at armpit level helps to break this habit.

 

[tom.guerry]

I think of the start of the throwing motion as involving bringing the hands in toward the middle/bellybutton as you get sideways which precedes the internal rotation then abduction that produces handbreak once you are sideways to the target.

dropping the hands in the swing is the same sort of preparation preceding internal rotation.

 

[krd005]

15 year olds. I will try to shoot some video of a couple of them and you guys can tell me. Maybe I am missing something? Thanks for all the idea's!!!