Dropping Hands before swinging

[softballdad13]

My daughter has a different approach from hitting live pitching than she does with soft-toss, tee, or pitching machine. She looks and feels confident while hitting non-live pitching and swings without any hesitation at all and like most that have already posted on this website hits the ball well.

The issue is that when she is hitting off live pitching she has a really bad habit of dropping her hands and hitting the ball basically from her hip and most of the time it is a weak ground ball on the infield or a pop-up on the infield. She very rarely strikes out so I feel as though she has a good eye for the ball, but it appears that she has no confidence in hitting live pitching.

Any suggestions on how I can fix this? Again the frustration part is that this is a non-issue with non-live pitching, but a bad issue with live pitching. In my mind the only way to correct this terrible habit is do more live hitting or do as some have suggested and let her hit off of me pitching to her.

 

[cshilt]

Nothing can take the place of real, live hitting off of a pitcher. The more reps the better. Practice should, in my opinion, not include much hitting off of machines. Instead, pitching from behind a screen or front toss.

No screen? Try using the TCB balls. They can be front tossed or pitched without the need of a screen. They provide good feedback on how you're hitting the ball and can be gathered up quickly as they don't travel as far.

 

[Wellphyt]

I see this a lot with players who have been taught to keep their hands up, or to, "Not Drop Their Hands". When they drop their hands against live pitching, what they are doing is getting a head start. They are trying to give themselves more time to read the pitch and make the decision to swing or not. A lot of girls in FP; I would say most; are taught to load their hands straight back and then launch their swing straight forward. The result is a swing that starts forward from a dead stop. The body instinctively knows that this isn't quick...It's not efficient. So the body gets the bat started early by dropping the hands. Good idea...poor execution. It's not her fault. She has never been taught.

Teach her how to get the barrel started early without dropping her hands. It's a combination of external rotation of the rear upper arm and adduction. All the girls do the adduction part. Few do the external rotation part. Combine the two and you go a long ways to having a connected swing. If you don't like using baseball players as models, get a clip of Jen Yee.

 

[Shawn]

Yes, they are taught to not drop the hands in practice. I don't think that is the problem.

Pujols hands don't drop because his swing is in plane with his spine/torso. Just about every young fastpitch hitter talked about do not do this in their swing.

There is also an issue of the lead arm and shoulder losing it's mechanical advantage or connection, because kids tilt the shoulders down and up without swinging in the same plane of the torso.

 

[Wellphyt]

Yes, they are taught to not drop the hands in practice. I don't think that is the problem.

I agree that's not the problem. The problem as I see it, is that in many cases the girls have not been taught in practice how to get the bat started without moving their hands down and towards the pitcher. They have essentially been taught to keep their hands at the back shoulder and just swing. That's not what I see the better hitters like Jen Yee or Pujols doing.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

My daughter has a different approach from hitting live pitching than she does with soft-toss, tee, or pitching machine. She looks and feels confident while hitting non-live pitching and swings without any hesitation at all and like most that have already posted on this website hits the ball well.

The issue is that when she is hitting off live pitching she has a really bad habit of dropping her hands and hitting the ball basically from her hip and most of the time it is a weak ground ball on the infield or a pop-up on the infield. She very rarely strikes out so I feel as though she has a good eye for the ball, but it appears that she has no confidence in hitting live pitching.

Any suggestions on how I can fix this? Again the frustration part is that this is a non-issue with non-live pitching, but a bad issue with live pitching. In my mind the only way to correct this terrible habit is do more live hitting or do as some have suggested and let her hit off of me pitching to her.

Watch for conflicting cues like level swing, keep the shoulders level, stay upright, or don't drop the back shoulder.

 

[ifubuildit]

I teach my students to set their arms like Pujols. There are good reasons for this and dropping the hands is a prime one. One of the things I read a long time ago was a quote from Tony Gwen about Barry Bonds swing when they played together. What Gwen stated is that one thing Bonds talked about was taking the bottom hand across the chest. In other words pull with the bottom hand. How you interpret that is a whole different matter. You dont want to be taking the hands towards the ball and disconnecting your swing.

I have and still use this cue. Imagine you have a paint brush in your hand pointing at you. As you swing paint your chest. In other words pull with the bottom hand across the chest. Be aware that this cue is just that a CUE. Your hitter may indeed take their hands to the ball and disconnect the swing. As an instructor you have to be aware of what the cues you use can cause a hitter to do with their swing.

Bottom line this cue for me eliminates the dropping of the hands for my students. Just make sure they dont disconnect when you use it.

Dana

 

[Wellphyt]

Here's another way to look at the issue of dropping the hands. The next time you see a player drop their hands, watch their back elbow. You will see that as the hands drop, the back elbow also drops. It lowers to the side. Every hitter that I have ever seen, lowers the back elbow towards their side as they launch their swing. IMO, it is a universal movement that most of us are born with. IOW, the body knows that the back elbow has to lower down to the side in order to swing a bat, club, racket, axe, etc.

When a player drops their hands, what they are doing is slotting their back elbow in preparation to swing the bat. When a player is simply told to "not drop their hands", they are essentially being told to not slot their back elbow. This puts the hitter in conflict because the body wants to slot the back elbow.

IMO, the solution is to teach the player how to slot the back elbow without dropping the hands, like Pujols does in the clip. This can be done without introducing cues that could lead to a front arm pull. Pujols, Williams and Bonds, just to name a few; refer to the swing as coming from the backside, i.e...top hand throw...two hand throw...hard push with the top hand being the primary power source.

IMO, understanding the role of the top hand is very important because the back elbow is GOING to slot one way or the other. If the top hand is put in control, then the hands will stay put and the elbow will drop down. If the elbow is put in control; which is IMO the bodies' default setting; then the hands will drop down with the elbow.

My point is that when a player drops their hands they are in actuality slotting their rear elbow, which is what they are suppose to do. They are just not doing it as efficiently as they could be doing it. One could say that dropping the hands is not so much incorrect, as much as it is inefficient.

 

[ifubuildit]

When a player drops their hands, what they are doing is slotting their back elbow in preparation to swing the bat. When a player is simply told to "not drop their hands", they are essentially being told to not slot their back elbow. This puts the hitter in conflict because the body wants to slot the back elbow.









IMO, the solution is to teach the player how to slot the back elbow without dropping the hands, like Pujols does in the clip. This can be done without introducing cues that could lead to a front arm pull. Pujols, Williams and Bonds, just to name a few; refer to the swing as coming from the backside, i.e...top hand throw...two hand throw...hard push with the top hand being the primary power source.

Well

Then what is Tony talking about in frame 4? He is saying nothing about the top hand being the driver. He is saying just the opposite of what you described.

Bonds at bat

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Well

Then what is Tony talking about in frame 4? He is saying nothing about the top hand being the driver. He is saying just the opposite of what you described.

Bonds at bat

Interesting.

I've seen this before but watched it this time with a new perspective.

I wonder if it matters, to some people at least, which hand they try to pull with?

Gwynn says to pull with the bottom hand. I wonder if things would be different if you pulled with the top hand?

I bring this up because I have seen some people's back elbows leak forward when they try to pull the knob, but I never thought to ask them what hand they thought they were pulling with.

Here are clips of two guys with leaky back elbows.

I know this guy was taught to pull the knob.

I suspect this guy was taught to pull the knob.

P.S. Gwynn talks about the problem of chicken winging. I don't see how what Bonds is doing could be described as anything but chicken winging.